2012 World Billiards Championship Leeds UK - COMPETENT MANAGER WANTED APPLY WITHIN -

[jd147]

The newly formed WORLD BILLIARDS association incorporating the previous model plus the IBSF tournaments has an increased field of participants, and contests two versions of the event, the timed and the 150 up plus a few lead up tournaments.

The 2012 World Championships are being held at the Northern Snooker Centre in Leeds between 17th – 28th October. The period around the Championships is a veritable ‘Festival of Billiards’, comprising five separate competitions.

Billiards at the very highest level will be displayed during the 10 day period and anyone interested in snooker, billiard or pool should go and have a look.

What hasn't change is the ridiculously low prize money on offer, 3000 pounds for winning the World Professional Billiards title which additionally requires a personal financial contribution from each player towards the prize fund.

In other words this new World Billiards organisation is as incompetent as the previous lot has been in providing an appropriate frame work, sponsorship and TV coverage for a World Billiards Championship and appropriate prize money without player contributions. If one looks at Barry Hearn, Snooker is riding a never before experienced crest of a wave plus he is able to organize a Darts World Championship with a guaranteed prize fund of 1 million pounds 200000 pounds going to the winner, while the World Billiards Champion after playing 4 or 5 round robin matches, plus the knock out comp. and the final will walk away with 3000 pounds, enabling him to just about break even after deducting his expenses. you may well ask what on Earth has happened to Billiards ??????

[Ginger Freak]

It should all be good fun, and I plan on popping down to watch a bit at some point!

As for your gripe about the prize money, you are right, it is a shame, however, Billiards is a dying sport, has been or over 40 years now, so its not exactly a huge surprise, after all, where would any extra money come from? There just arent enough spectators or sponsors around to generate it.

You could try moving it to somewhere like India I suppose, but if they cant even be bothered watching their own cricket team.....

[100-uper]

You may be interested to know that the great saviour of snooker, Barry Hearn, was offered billiards when he took over World Snooker, but was not interested. Along with other activities from which he could not make a profit, the game was left with the WPBSA. He was certainly not going to work for nothing on a long term project which was unlikely ever to ever make a return on his balance sheet. If the job is beyond the abilities of Mr Hearn then you need to question just how it might be tackled? The easy answer was to give up, but Jason Ferguson had other ideas.

I think the key to your complaint is in your opening words which identify that World Billiards is a "newly formed" organisation. This is a wholly owned subsidiary of WPBSA and although it might be imagined that the organisation operates from plush offices surrounded by salaried staff, in reality the company consists of three part-time volunteers working from PC's in their own homes.

This is their first full season of operation having taken over from the WPBSA who ran billiards as one championship per year, which regularly attracted no more than sixteen entries, and whose prize money was effectively paid by the professional snooker players.

In addition to WBL organising a range of satellite competitions, the current World Championship is anticipated to have 62 entries, plus a qualifying competition for additional hopefuls. I would point out that the largest ever entry to a billiards world championship was 48 for the IBSF championship in 1999 and in recent years the entries for this competition have mainly hovered around the 30-mark.

Personally, I think that this is a great achievement for an organisation which has only been operating since the beginning of the year. "Incompetent" is not a word I would ascribe to WBL, I think "resourceful" is better. If billiards is to survive it will not be down to people who are looking to make a "quick buck" either from its administration, or as players.

[jd147]

I agree with most in both of yours and the previous comment;

It's news to me however that Barry Hearn was offered Billiards alongside Snooker and if he was it would be interesting to see on what terms?

Barrys Hearn is a businessman,think back a few years if you will, who would have been"crazy" enough to take Darts out of the UK Pups and put it on TV?? Not only did Barry do that, but for the 2012-13 season he has a fully paid up budget of over 1 million pounds with a guaranteed 200000 pounds first prize to the winner.

I do not agree that Billiards is a dying sport, I agree it's by nature less suitable to the average TV viewer who does not understand the rules or intricacies of the moves required and yes it does lack the quick action pot and positional play snooker provides, but some thought and effort into correct marketing would be able to overcome this.

I wonder how many remember the Blue Arrows Billiard matches of 1985 on TV? most top Snooker players of that time took part and it was widely watched and very popular, it involved a short program of 15 minutes play for each player, with the clock running down as they missed a shot and once your allotted 15 minutes had expired your opponent had the chance to better your score but had to do it in one visit, have something similar to that as a Billiards TV showcase if you like and leave the timed 2 hours sessions for the World Championships.
I am not convinced that an increased number of participants in this years Championship, it wont be 62 but around 40+, is a good thing for Billiards right now, what it does is it increases the workload of those capable of winning considerably, but wont do a thing to make Billiards more popular, this year we have 150 up in the mornings and the same player will then switch to a timed session in the afternoon, a crazy double effort for the same amount of prize money?? Makes no sense at all and wont progress the game, on the contrary, once the overseas player has been there done that that will be it, you won't see him again the following year. Indian, Australian and New Zealand participants will be paying something like 4000 pounds each in travel and accommodation costs just to compete? on top of that they are asked to chip in heavily to provide a prize fund. And how many can win the grand prize of 3000 pounds?

Billiards will continued to be played by the enthusiasts around the world through their various amateur associations, the skill required to play Billiards at the highest level is every bit as difficult as reaching the top in snooker,maybe more so, a top billiard player will also be a good snooker player but the opposite is not always the case.

Billiards was the first game, snooker came afterwards and it does seem very wrong if we just let Billiards die.

World Billiards, instead of seeking record numbers of entries would have fared much better IMO to just concentrate on one tournament, the World Professional Championship by working on obtaining sponsorship and TV coverage for that event.
If something is worth having it's worth doing it right, 3000 pounds for the Billiards World Champion does not even amount to an exhibition fee for the Worlds best, so if it is what it is going to be it's worth nothing and it would be better to revert to a challenge system and keep the amateur game as it has been for the past 40 years.

But I firmly believe that if a concerted effort is made to attract the right person to sell and promote Billiards as it should be sold and promoted we will see a rise in popularity of the game again, it's just that to date we have not yet found the right person.

You may be interested to know that the great saviour of snooker, Barry Hearn, was offered billiards when he took over World Snooker, but was not interested. Along with other activities from which he could not make a profit, the game was left with the WPBSA. He was certainly not going to work for nothing on a long term project which was unlikely ever to ever make a return on his balance sheet. If the job is beyond the abilities of Mr Hearn then you need to question just how it might be tackled? The easy answer was to give up, but Jason Ferguson had other ideas.

I think the key to your complaint is in your opening words which identify that World Billiards is a "newly formed" organisation. This is a wholly owned subsidiary of WPBSA and although it might be imagined that the organisation operates from plush offices surrounded by salaried staff, in reality the company consists of three part-time volunteers working from PC's in their own homes.

This is their first full season of operation having taken over from the WPBSA who ran billiards as one championship per year, which regularly attracted no more than sixteen entries, and whose prize money was effectively paid by the professional snooker players.

In addition to WBL organising a range of satellite competitions, the current World Championship is anticipated to have 62 entries, plus a qualifying competition for additional hopefuls. I would point out that the largest ever entry to a billiards world championship was 48 for the IBSF championship in 1999 and in recent years the entries for this competition have mainly hovered around the 30-mark.

Personally, I think that this is a great achievement for an organisation which has only been operating since the beginning of the year. "Incompetent" is not a word I would ascribe to WBL, I think "resourceful" is better. If billiards is to survive it will not be down to people who are looking to make a "quick buck" either from its administration, or as players.

[100-uper]

Barry Hearn named his own terms for taking over the failing WPBSA and the structure which exists today was the one he came up with.

Your solution for billiards is to "obtain sponsorship" but would advise that this is not a radical new idea. The tough bit is not saying it, but actually doing it. Darts is a game played by millions in the UK alone, and is followed by millions more. Snooker comes into the same category. It is much easier for someone like Barry Hearn to sell sponsorship if you are quoting audience figures like this which fall across a wide demographic.

Compare this to billiards; a game which can only be followed by people who have played it, because they are the only ones who can appreciate what is going on. In the UK player numbers can be counted, not in the millions, but in the hundreds! With a potential audience like this, how many hard-nosed marketing executives are going to invest their company's limited budget in a billiards competition?

Your example of the Blue Arrow tournament may well have been "very popular" with yourself, but was considered an abject failure as a TV broadcast, which is why it was never repeated. Even in India, where there is something of a fanatical following for the game, TV companies expect to be paid to broadcast events.

Geet Sethi recently said that if they put him on the Board of World Billiards he would personally guarantee sponsors prepared to contribute "not less than 20,000 pounds over and above what WBL puts in." (WBL currently puts in about £26,000). So WPBSA put him on the Board. I wait with interest for the appearance of the fabled sponsors, as everything seems to have gone quiet on that particular front. However, if he is true to his word, you can expect all your perceived problems of prize money to be solved very soon. Personally I wouldn't advise that you hold your breath while waiting.

In my view, the first step which World Billiards must take is to develop something they can actually sell to real sponsors. That is why growing numbers are so important.

[the montrealer]

HI Will there be live video Streaming as i am in Canada and would love to see it live on the Internet

Maybe someone knows cheers Leonard

[100-uper]

Not sure if they will be streaming. I think there are some issues with the internet link at the venue, but if it happens it will be on the WBL website.

[jd147]

Snooker was very much in a similar situation under Sir Rodney Walkers leadership Billiard is facing today, refusing to see opportunities, paying themselves salaries and remunerations for contracts negotiated, just a few stale tournaments per annum it was 6 in all, and with declining interest and prize money.

Walker and his board refusing to see the problem for what it was and blaming everyone and everything for Snookers decline in popularity, except themselves, they knew what was good for snooker and it's future.

Now 5 years later I doubt that you will find even a single person that will still agree with Walkers view then, we now have professional players from around the globe, Robertson from Australia Ding from China who are household names in the game and more tournaments on a world scale then Walker and Co could ever have dreamt about.

I cannot find a single statement by Barry Hearn in which he categorically rejects Billiards! I would very much like to hear Barry Hearn's views on Billiards today.

Regards the 1985 Blue Arrows TV broadcast, it was not a ratings disaster as you claim, far from it, it was a cheap production by a Company called Sports Management International,which I believe has long since gone into liquidation,hence no re runs! it was presented by dour Tony Francis and broadcast in the UK on Ch4 around midnight for 45 minutes. If you broadcast any production at that time slot you could expect a similar and probably worse ratings outcome.

I am not sure about Geet Sethi's alleged claim to sponsorship money, I do know that no individual or company will be willing to sponsor and pay out money without appropriate returns for their investment, and to invest in Billiards under it's present management seems to me to be one off, if not the biggest problem to progress. If the boards only reason to offer Geet a position was that he might bring the sponsorship the board is incapable of generating on its own, then this is deplorable.

If there is no interest in Billiards with 42 players contesting a tournament a 62 player field wont make any difference at all.

Billiard will always be different to Snooker or Pool in as much as anyone without any prior skill can easily pick up a cue and proceed to bash a few balls into pockets, much easier to associated with, Billiard does require a certain level of skill and understanding of angles to play and enjoy the game which probably does not appeal to a number of todays immediate result society, but this is just a marketing exercise and not something that cannot be overcome.

Joe Johnson has done a great job not just as a very knowledgeable commentator of snooker but Joe also appreciates and says so in his commentary the art and skill of playing billiards, more commentators should talk about it.

It would be fantastic if we could stage the World Professional Billiards Final at least, with the qualifying and preliminary rounds played elsewhere, in Sheffield the week leading up to the World Professional Snooker finals, with all the facilities and infrastructure already in place, what better opportunity to bring Billiards to a world wide audience.

I reiterate that all Billiards needs is a competent manager there is nothing wrong with the game it is the current and past management that is holding it back.

Barry Hearn named his own terms for taking over the failing WPBSA and the structure which exists today was the one he came up with.

Your solution for billiards is to "obtain sponsorship" but would advise that this is not a radical new idea. The tough bit is not saying it, but actually doing it. Darts is a game played by millions in the UK alone, and is followed by millions more. Snooker comes into the same category. It is much easier for someone like Barry Hearn to sell sponsorship if you are quoting audience figures like this which fall across a wide demographic.

Compare this to billiards; a game which can only be followed by people who have played it, because they are the only ones who can appreciate what is going on. In the UK player numbers can be counted, not in the millions, but in the hundreds! With a potential audience like this, how many hard-nosed marketing executives are going to invest their company's limited budget in a billiards competition?

Your example of the Blue Arrow tournament may well have been "very popular" with yourself, but was considered an abject failure as a TV broadcast, which is why it was never repeated. Even in India, where there is something of a fanatical following for the game, TV companies expect to be paid to broadcast events.

Geet Sethi recently said that if they put him on the Board of World Billiards he would personally guarantee sponsors prepared to contribute "not less than 20,000 pounds over and above what WBL puts in." (WBL currently puts in about £26,000). So WPBSA put him on the Board. I wait with interest for the appearance of the fabled sponsors, as everything seems to have gone quiet on that particular front. However, if he is true to his word, you can expect all your perceived problems of prize money to be solved very soon. Personally I wouldn't advise that you hold your breath while waiting.

In my view, the first step which World Billiards must take is to develop something they can actually sell to real sponsors. That is why growing numbers are so important.

[100-uper]

It's difficult to argue that your proposed solutions to the troubles of billiards would not be of immense benefit. If I might take the liberty of summarising them as:

- Find a top level entrepreneur to run the game.
- Obtain sponsorship
- Get TV coverage
- Pay the players lots of money

All I can do in that respect is to wish you the best of luck in your achieving your objectives, as I fancy the task will not be as simple as replacing the current board with someone else.

I am reasonably certain that your target saviour, Barry Hearn, would not get involved. Although you may not have seen a negative comment about billiards made by him, I can only report what he said to me in a meeting held in May 2010. I can't recall his exact words, but they went something like: "Billiards is a fine game, but I want nothing to do with it." I seriously doubt that his views have changed in the intervening period.

However, you can always ask him. You can contact him through his company website at matchroom.com, or directly by prefixing this domain by "barry.hearn"

Let me know how you get on.

[jd147]

Not entirely - I have no objection to anyone currently on the board,on the contrary I wish them all the best and I am sure, at least I would like to think they are trying their very best to generate more interest in the game for the games sake. The question that needs to be asked though is, is this the right way and is this enough? I would just like to see some tangible progress, and to me gathering another 20 or so players for the currently available tournaments does not look like progress, to charge an entry fee per player and to finance the prize fund primarily through that, is amateur, no one can argue that.
The current ranking system likewise represents no improvement to the game, unless you have a certain guaranteed number of players competing for a set number of tournaments a ranking system is of little use, currently you have the world champion Mike Russell ranked somewhere between 8 - 12 and if Mike just plays the one tournament somewhere in the 30 - 40's. I wonder how many players ranked above Mike would seriously entertain a realistic chance against him in a Billiards match?
Wherever and whenever you question someone's ability to do a job to an expected level there will always be friction, no one likes to be told you are not good enough or you are not doing a good enough job, if the criticism is warranted and if there are better ways to do the same job then a decision just has to be made and invariably someone will get hurt, this is how the market works and in a sense Billiard is also part of a market system.
It's easy to say it cannot be done if you have no knowledge of how it is to be done, it's like asking a novice player in snooker to make a 100 break, he cant do it because he does not know how to although he may try his hardest to do so. Ask a professional and the task looks childs play.
No one is naive enough to believe that it is just that easy, it will require skillful and dedicated work by people who are familiar with and successful in sports promotions, but again I doubt that you will find very many supporters for the way Billiards is currently been managed and promoted, ask any of the top players with experience in international competition and they will confirm that it is amateur through and through, if that is all the main players of Billiards aspire to, fine leave it where it is.
But I am not alone to believe that we can do a great deal better with the wonderful and historic game of Billiards than we are doing at the moment.

It's difficult to argue that your proposed solutions to the troubles of billiards would not be of immense benefit. If I might take the liberty of summarising them as:

- Find a top level entrepreneur to run the game.
- Obtain sponsorship
- Get TV coverage
- Pay the players lots of money

All I can do in that respect is to wish you the best of luck in your achieving your objectives, as I fancy the task will not be as simple as replacing the current board with someone else.

I am reasonably certain that your target saviour, Barry Hearn, would not get involved. Although you may not have seen a negative comment about billiards made by him, I can only report what he said to me in a meeting held in May 2010. I can't recall his exact words, but they went something like: "Billiards is a fine game, but I want nothing to do with it." I seriously doubt that his views have changed in the intervening period.

However, you can always ask him. You can contact him through his company website at matchroom.com, or directly by prefixing this domain by "barry.hearn"

Let me know how you get on.

[sberry]

Anyone found an outlet for the new balls yet, will they be using them in this event?

[ferret]

jd147 - I do not know who you are, if you are involved with running Billiards or not but from what I have read and I have not read everything in this thread you want Barry Hearn or significant other to come in and poor money into Billiards which it utterly ridiculous.

The people at board level for Billiards who I am all guessing are over 50 and have no clue about modern technology hence the poorly coded website, only 49 fans on their Facebook group and the utter lack of online marketing for the game, well it these people who should be spending their time on social media, marketing and reaching out to new people, that in turn will raise the games profile, increase popularity and bring more people into the game, then and only then will you attract sponsors, interest and money.

You can not expect everything to be given to you on a plate just because you are a sport on the endangered species list.

This thread is the only mention of this event I have seen and until reading past the first post I was intending on going to Leeds for this as think we need more information about Billiards on the site but now I don't think I will bother wasting my £120 on the train fair, 2 days of my time and other expenses for a sport with such a negative attitude.

Quite literally before posting this reply I loaded up TSF and see this thread title on the front page and immediately went for my phone to call Jason Ferguson to see if he would be attending before booking my train, I am glad my battery was dead and I read this first.

Maybe the people who I expect are all from the north of the country based on where all the billiard events are should look at a map, open it fully and actually discover that there is a south! there are lots of billiards players in the south of the country but they would not travel to Leeds, Bradford or Bury St Edmonds for a event which they know nothing of due to poor coverage, bring some taster events to the south and maybe you will get some more people turning up.

[sberry]

Maybe the people who I expect are all from the north of the country based on where all the billiard events are should look at a map, open it fully and actually discover that there is a south! there are lots of billiards players in the south of the country but they would not travel to Leeds, Bradford or Bury St Edmonds for a event which they know nothing of due to poor coverage, bring some taster events to the south and maybe you will get some more people turning up.

Well said, we even have snooker halls in the South, not many as they are shutting quicker than pubs but there are some that could host it. Problem still is the game is about as popular as real tennis or croquet and audiences are very small both televisually and physically so that limits your sponsors but not all games earn big money, accept it and get over it and play the game because you want to.

Anyone know when the new tournament pro cup balls are on sale?

[jd147]

Maybe they are all in need of modernisation, here is an article from the Indian Publications it seems that in India they have not only recognized that Billiards is not as marketable as Snooker and Pool and they are doing something about it, sounds good to me.


IPL-like tourney for cue sports
Published: Thursday, Mar 22, 2012, 8:28 IST
By Jayadev Calamur | Place: Mumbai | Agency: DNA


Sports authorities in India are trying their best to present their sport on a larger scale to the audience. Now, Indian cueists seem to have taken a leaf out of cricket and hockey. Billiards and Snooker Association of India and Sasha Sanvi, a cueist from Karnataka, are planning to have a franchise-based billiards tourney just like the IPL.

Though still in the conception stage, the idea is to have billiards, snooker and pool in the same platform. In this regard, a presentation will be made on April 7 in Goa during the Asian Championship 2012.

Confirming the news, Billiards and Snooker Association of India’s secretary S Balasubramaniam said, “While amateur billiards doesn’t pay really well, snooker and pool are only played at the professional level and the prize money is good. If the tournament generates a positive response, we hope to get good sponsors. The plan is to have snooker, pool and billiards players under the same platform.”

Both national and international players will play in the same team, much like the IPL or the World Series Hockey in order to up the standard of the competition.

Devendra Joshi, a committee member of the Maharashtra Billiards and Snooker Association and one of the participants in the Asian Billiards Championships, said, “Sanvi is passionate about promoting the sport and hopes the presentation leads to an approval for the tournament.”

Meanwhile, the players are already excited. Veteran cueist Arun Agrawal admits that billiards does not queue up sponsors like cricket. “If a tournament like this comes through, not only will it mean good money, there will be intense competition. Better the competition, the more you improve as a player,” he said.

The Asian tournament starts on April 2 at Goa, with the billiards team comprising Alok Kumar, Pankaj Advani, Rupesh Shah, Arun Agrawal, Devendra Joshi and Dhruv Sitwala.

jd147 - I do not know who you are, if you are involved with running Billiards or not but from what I have read and I have not read everything in this thread you want Barry Hearn or significant other to come in and poor money into Billiards which it utterly ridiculous.

The people at board level for Billiards who I am all guessing are over 50 and have no clue about modern technology hence the poorly coded website, only 49 fans on their Facebook group and the utter lack of online marketing for the game, well it these people who should be spending their time on social media, marketing and reaching out to new people, that in turn will raise the games profile, increase popularity and bring more people into the game, then and only then will you attract sponsors, interest and money.

You can not expect everything to be given to you on a plate just because you are a sport on the endangered species list.

This thread is the only mention of this event I have seen and until reading past the first post I was intending on going to Leeds for this as think we need more information about Billiards on the site but now I don't think I will bother wasting my £120 on the train fair, 2 days of my time and other expenses for a sport with such a negative attitude.

Quite literally before posting this reply I loaded up TSF and see this thread title on the front page and immediately went for my phone to call Jason Ferguson to see if he would be attending before booking my train, I am glad my battery was dead and I read this first.

Maybe the people who I expect are all from the north of the country based on where all the billiard events are should look at a map, open it fully and actually discover that there is a south! there are lots of billiards players in the south of the country but they would not travel to Leeds, Bradford or Bury St Edmonds for a event which they know nothing of due to poor coverage, bring some taster events to the south and maybe you will get some more people turning up.