'Four Ball' rules

[oymyakon]

During colonisation of America the British brought Billiards tables to there and in further succession they created a game named 'Four Ball'. As it sounds in historical articles it should have been a layer of known Billiards (but 1 ball over) and before Pool this was the very most popular game in North America for a long time. But nowhere I could found any rules. Does anybody knows the rules or roughly description of the game?

Thx!!

[Robert602]

Interesting, I can't find any full rules for this, but I've found a couple of descriptions:

The dominant American billiard game until the 1870's was American Four-Ball Billiards, usually played on a large (l 1 or 12-foot), four-pocket table with four balls-two white and red. It was a direct extension of English Billiards. Points were scored by pocketing balls, scratching the cue ball, or by making caroms on two or three balls. A "carom" is the act of hitting two object balls with the cue ball at one stroke. With so many balls, there were many different ways of scoring and it was possible to make up to 13 points on a single shot. American Four-Ball produced two offspring, both of which surpassed it in popularity by the late 1870's...

http://www.bca-pool.com/aboutus/history/poolinusa.shtml

The 'four-pocket' bit is interesting, haven't English billiards tables always had six? You might also be able to deduce from the 13 point limit whether the scoring was essentially the same as English billiards.

Confusingly it seems that there was also a game known as 'four ball billiards' played on a pocketless table. There's a brief wikipedia article on this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-ball. The discussion page mentions the distinction.

[oymyakon]

Its VERY confusingly. Perhaps the Anericans didn't and does have a problem to reconstruct the true story cause on and off in several states billiards was forbidden and frowned upon at the upper class. So perhaps thatswhy there are some white spots at their own billiards history. I talked to a member of Amer. Cue Sports Alliance - beside he gave me some interesting new facts and statistics he couldn't tell me the whole story.

It seems to be sure that English Billiards table was the archetype. You say it....why they should pass into a 4 pockets table (subsequent Pool tables also have 6 pockets)?
There is evidence to suggest that carom in America was imported by French - the first (so called) wc there was a carom tournament 1878 in NYC between 3 'heroes' and minimum 1 was a French.
I think there are 4 lines:
1. English Billiards
2. Four Ball
3. Carom
4. Pool
Obviously they created several hybrids of several influences - and at the end pool became most accepted. But the 4 pockets at a 12 feet table aren't in line with the story.
The 'Four Ball Billiards' on a pocketless table could be a short crossover to 'Straight Rail'. It could be that 'Pool' was emanated from 'Four Ball' - but where from the 15 ball rack idea came? Pyramid? English Pool? Own idea?

Its confusingly....

[100-uper]

During colonisation of America the British brought Billiards tables to there and in further succession they created a game named 'Four Ball'. As it sounds in historical articles it should have been a layer of known Billiards (but 1 ball over) and before Pool this was the very most popular game in North America for a long time. But nowhere I could found any rules. Does anybody knows the rules or roughly description of the game?

Thx!!

Four-ball billiards was an American game, but made a brief appearance in England in the early 1850s along with the American Champion, Andrew Buist (aka "Starke"). It became extremely popular for a short time, but the novelty soon faded. I have the full rules which I can email if you want them, but this is a summary of the game, taken from a book published in 1866:

"The American Game consists entirely of Winning Hazards and Cannons. It is played with four balls, usually 62-up, by two players; or by four, in sides of two each; or by six, in sides of three each. As many balls as may be pocketed by one stroke count, in addition to Cannons upon two or three balls; while Losing Hazards, Misses, and Coups are scored against the striker. The rules as to foul strokes, etc. are the same as in Billiards; but the baulk from which the ball in hand is played extends not merely to the semi-circle, but to all the space within a baulk-line drawn higher up the table than the ordinary line. The red ball is placed on the Pyramid Spot, which is the lower of the two spots above the middle pocket; and the pink ball on a spot midway on the baulk-line, at the same distance from the lower cushion as the red spot is from the upper one. The players lead off from any part of the baulk; and the fact of the coloured balls being severally in the centre of four pockets gives numerous chances for the making of Winning Hazards. Stark, Roberts, Hughes, Bowles, Dufton, the Oxford Jonathan, and other professional players, think nothing of a break of sixty or eighty from the two coloured balls; while the fact that there are three balls, instead of two, on which you may cannon, gives infinite variety and excitement to the game, and provides no small amusement for the lookers-on."

[oymyakon]

That helps me a lot! Gladly I accept your offer to send me the rules:
oymyakon_summer@yahoo.de
Thx very much!

for now 2 things I didn't understand completely:

1. Mr. Buist came to the UK and the game was shortly popular also in the UK?
2. 4 or 6 pockets?

I know, I could wait til the rules will arrive my box..... :-)

[100-uper]

for now 2 things I didn't understand completely:

1. Mr. Buist came to the UK and the game was shortly popular also in the UK?
2. 4 or 6 pockets?

The game seems to have been very popular in England at one time. This was entirely due to the presence of Buist and his exhibition matches with John Roberts (English Champion) and others.

This quote is from The Spirit of the Times (New York) 13th April 1850 (page 92):
"The American, or four ball game, although known to the old players by theory, has not been played at any of the billiard establishments for years, and may be said to have been completely unknown to the generality of the modern players until introduced by Mr. Stark upon his arrival in this country [England] last summer. It became fashionable from its novelty, and was played at most of the rooms in England."

It was reported in England at this time that the American's were playing on tables very similar to those in England, their Championship table being slightly smaller (10ft x 5ft) and using larger balls (2 3/8"). The matches played by Stark were known to be on tables specially made for the occasion, so were probably to the American specifications, although I have always assumed them to have six pockets. Possibly slightly contradictory is this report from Harpers Weekly (New York), Saturday 31st March 1866:

"In this country [USA], different sizes of tables are used, varying all the way from the French to the English standards. Some are made without pockets, while others have four or six each. The 'full' game includes caroms and the winning hazard, and a stroke can possibly be made to score thirteen. The game generally played by experts in this country is the four-ball carom game, on a four pocket table, 6 by 12 foot surface. "

So, take your pick!

[oymyakon]

...that Americans always must mystify us.....

The 10x5ft (and larger balls) version is in line the beginning of pool tables building and the rough thesis american halls (in which it was concidered to put up tables) generally were smaller.
It sounds like Four Ball in America was played as two (maybe three) different versions:
1. big table, 4 or 6 pockets
2. small table, 6 pockets
(3. pocketless table, probably forerunner of Straight Rail)

Maybe 2. was played by the ordinaries and 1. by experts.
The idea suggests itself: If small or big, 4 or 6 - did those tables already have american pockets?
The 4 pocket phenomenon furthermore is confusingly.
Either it was their invention (and existed additional to 6 pocket tables) or any author was mistaken. Its interesting that no serious billiards history article shows any table with 4 pockets.
I'll try to get an answer from the Americans or perhaps Brunswick. If there was existent a 4 pocket table then there MUST exist any illustration/description.

[100-uper]

The 4 pocket phenomenon furthermore is confusingly.
Either it was their invention (and existed additional to 6 pocket tables) or any author was mistaken. Its interesting that no serious billiards history article shows any table with 4 pockets.
I'll try to get an answer from the Americans or perhaps Brunswick. If there was existent a 4 pocket table then there MUST exist any illustration/description.

I think we need the input of an American historian to get a definitive answer on this one. I have some information, but the USA is a region that I have not studied in any detail. I do have a couple of books in my library, one by Phelan dated 1859, and the other by Brunswick dated 1891. There is nothing about a four-pocket table in the 1859 book, but the later one has a record of significant games where the 12 x 6, four-pocket table, is first referenced in 1863 and thereafter appears with increasing frequency. All tables in these matches seem to have been 12 x 6 with either six, four, or zero pockets (a carom table). This ties in with the report from Harpers Weekly (1866) previously quoted.

In the early 1870s the table size seems to be reducing, now being referenced as 11 x 5.5 ft., and within a few years 10 x 5 seems to have been the standard. By now, there is no reference to any important matches being played on anything except a carom table.

So I would suggest that if you want to find out about the four pocket table you should be targeting the dates 1864-70 as the height of its fame.

[oymyakon]

Alright. Lets look how orderly they keep their chronicles and how much we can wrest from it. I'll let you know....

[LuckyPhil]

Aramith make a 4 ball set of balls which they call Yostudama - ARAMITH

[oymyakon]

Would be interesting to find out the differences between Four Ball and Yotsudama (Wikipedia: Yotsudama, Aramith: Yostudama). How Robert wrote, there are some discussions about it. There's a worry that an exactly description of the asian game is available only in japan or korean language. The resemblance of both games suggests the american version anyway anytime came to asia....(?)

[TheStranger]

Just found this thread and I have some experience with yotsudama/four-ball out here in metro Sacramento (there's a three-cushion/four-ball carom hall run by a Korean family about 2 miles from where I live)...

This game isn't related to American four-ball at all, but is a lot similar to the much older carom game "straightrail" in that a point is scored each time two object balls are hit. The difference between straightrail and four-ball is somewhat minor: where in straightrail, only three balls are involved and one point is scored when the opponent's cue ball and the one red object ball are both contacted, four-ball gives the point for hitting two red object balls, and takes away a point for not contacting any red balls or contacting your opponent's cue.

I've played it a few times with friends and I would say the same basic tactics as in straightrail - soft-touch nursing and crotching - would be extremely beneficial, though neither me nor my mates have mastered those techniques. None of the regulars we've seen have implemented nurse tactics from the times we've watched others play, probably due to the relatively young age of the game, compared to its ancestor.

The appearance of four-ball via Asia comes about a full century after straightrail faded in the United States due to nurse techniques being far from condusive for spectator entertainment - the fine touch shooting required to score hundreds to thousands of easy points on nurses, as the American greats of the late 1800s/early 1900s accomplished, makes a tactical stalemate in snooker look exciting. Here's a youtube example of someone practicing a nurse, for context:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_IbXtidO9aM

(Ultimately, the straightrail/balkline games evolved into three-cushion to try to keep the game watchable for spectators and much more challenging for carom experts.)

There was a clip of four-ball somewhere on Youtube a while ago, I haven't seen it lately though.