Antique Ivory Billiard Balls once used by Tom Reece in world record break

[ADR147]

You and I both know that ivory sold in London or on ebay will find it's way to China. This is the principle destination for old balls sold as 'bone' to get around regulations. Then its reworked or put in health potions. This fuels demand for fresh ivory. The idea that people aren't collecting ivory is ridiculous. The balls are made of ivory! They're not collecting poly balls, or even TCs. They're interested in these balls because of the material. The material is not incidental.

Well the balls I have are not because of the materials. I think the same would be true for every collector of snooker / billiards I know.

[Big Splash!]

Well the balls I have are not because of the materials. I think the same would be true for every collector of snooker / billiards I know.

You reckon? My old ISBF coach deliberately advertised balls on ebay as 'bone', knowing full well they were ivory. He also knew the target audience would know exactly what they were. Guess where they ended up? Nah, it wasn't Romford mate, those balls got on a plane to China. He made a lot of money from them, which is what he cared about. And that's what most collectors care about. Disgusting IMO. Fueling a cruelty trade. I could say more but it wouldn't be fair to name names.

[ADR147]

well the ivory is worth a price per gram in china I personally would pay more than that price for these items.

[Big Splash!]

Was reading a thread here yesterday wherein they were talking about rare woods. Mike Wooldridge stepped in and said chop em all down. Wonder what he'd say about elephants? I know one guy who'd like to see them all shot though. The guy being the kid in the rolo advert remember it?

Yeah, that's called short-sighted greed mate. No surprise. I believe JP only buys from sustainable sources.

[Big Splash!]

well the ivory is worth a price per gram in china I personally would pay more than that price for these items.

I wouldn't know the price per gram, that's the difference between us. I simply know it's value is priceless to the animal. How do we rise above the material world and greed to become true humans?

[DeanH]

When we in the West make it ok to collect ivory, we give the nod to Asia to do the same, only with today's elephants and rhinos. These animals are being hunted down for no good reason.

Totally agree with your comments.

But hey, it's ok for the West to trade in ivory. Let's just not allow others to do so. Profit should not be made from misery.

Everyone can trade in OLD ivory, not just the West. It is the new (post-1920s something I think) that is banned.

That you would want something from a magnificent animal cruely and painfully killed says much about you Deano.

I hope so, a massive snooker fan that would love to own these historic items.
As to them being ivory, shame and I do think about the activities that happened across the years in the past, NOT just ivory hunting but across many subjects; BUT there is absolutely F*** ALL I can do about something that happened and stopped a hundred plus years ago.
Of course illegal poaching happens, not just elephants/rhinos/etc. and as a family we do our small bit to support those that try to stop these activities for good.
But to blanket stain all old items of beauty/history because of how the material was sourced, that is too simplistic and wont do any good.
Just because something from the past is now repugnant to us nowadays does not mean you close your eyes to it, for what it is, by destroying it; the Nazis (among others) tried this by book burning anything they - in their infinite wisdom - disagreed with (scared of the truth more like).
We must learn from the past, the nice along with the ugly.

Anyway, all have a nice day.

[Big Splash!]

Totally agree with your comments.

Everyone can trade in OLD ivory, not just the West. It is the new (post-1920s something I think) that is banned.


I hope so, a massive snooker fan that would love to own these historic items.
As to them being ivory, shame and I do think about the activities that happened across the years in the past, NOT just ivory hunting but across many subjects; BUT there is absolutely F*** ALL I can do about something that happened and stopped a hundred plus years ago.
Of course illegal poaching happens, not just elephants/rhinos/etc. and as a family we do our small bit to support those that try to stop these activities for good.
But to blanket stain all old items of beauty/history because of how the material was sourced, that is too simplistic and wont do any good.
Just because something from the past is now repugnant to us nowadays does not mean you close your eyes to it, for what it is, by destroying it; the Nazis (among others) tried this by book burning anything they - in their infinite wisdom - disagreed with (scared of the truth more like).
We must learn from the past, the nice along with the ugly.

Anyway, all have a nice day.

I don't want brutal and ugly in my house ta. I don't want slave bones on the mantle-piece. Kids can go and look at em in museums and learn. There are ivory balls in snooker museums, we don't need em elsewhere. We don't need to glorify horrors by 'proudly' collecting them. That's sick.

[DeanH]

Earlier did you not say "burn all ivory" if we did that then the museums would not have anything to show and inform the generations of young.

No simple, black/white answer, as with most things in life I'm afraid.

[DeanH]

As I understand it, any old ivory can not be reworked, it must remain as it is from before 1920s (?).

[Big Splash!]

As I understand it, any old ivory can not be reworked, it must remain as it is from before 1920s (?).

Yeah, I'm sure those balls me ISBF coach sold on ebay and sent to China have stayed as balls. Of course. I can write a stack of laws but I've got no-one to enforce them overseas.

[DeanH]

Sorry, maybe I did go too far
I meant if it is a carving it must stay that carving, if a ball it must stay a ball

I may have it wrong but that is the way I understand it. I suppose you can have a special licence to rework old ivory, like the special licences to buy/sell old ivory (auction houses, etc.) :shrug-shoulders:

[Big Splash!]

Earlier did you not say "burn all ivory" if we did that then the museums would not have anything to show and inform the generations of young.

No simple, black/white answer, as with most things in life I'm afraid.

No, don't burn the stuff in museums but private collections. Just as the Duke of C did. Museums generally don't trade but lend exhibits to each other.

[DeanH]

sorry but museums are often the biggest buyers on the private market as well as the auctions (not just talking ivory either ) and some are big as sellers as well, often buying for investment and selling for profit to keep their organisations running
and yes they do lend to each other, of course

[shafter]

how much would these be worth?
just out of interest

[vmax4steve]

It is legal to buy and sell pre 1947 ivory, there is a cue making website in the US that does so, but cannot now sell it overseas or to Florida as that state has recently changed the law. So in the US in all states bar Florida you can buy and sell pre 1947 ivory, though proving it's age isn't easy, hence the change in the law. I believe that most of the illegal stuff there comes from walrus tusks.

Those billiard balls, if genuine, can be worth an awful lot to the right person, Roger Lee maybe.