World Rules - Have I missed anything...

[perpetualboredom]

I fully agree with this. If you get "rolled up" on and snookered in World Rules, at least its fairly skilled. The old rules allowed people to win games they shouldn't have, simply by rolling to a ball.

With regard to pocket holding in World Rules, it's usually best to clear the held pocket by potting your opponents offending ball that is holding you there as early as possible. The longer your held, and the less balls on the table the worse it is for you! Simples.

Not true at all. The person who potted the black in either set of rules deserved to win, whether he rolled up to a ball or not. When I played old rules, if I went for a clearence I did so with this in mind and wasn't left with 1 ball on the table with opponent having 7. Those who played that way, lost, and deserved to lose, it was the same rules for everyone afterall. Even when it did happen there was a great deal of skill in extracting yourself from a snooker, often laying one back.. I think the loss of this element of the game is sad for pool.

I've played world rules for the last 10 years, and it can be equally as fudgey as old rules, there's as little skill in covering a pocket and deliberate fouling as their is in rolling up in my opinion. That said.. as you progress to a higher standard, players who're capable of clearing the table are more likely to go for it at WR. This is simply because you can still be in the game should you miss or run out of position on the last ball or so, through DF's and trying to engineer a position to stay in the game... whereas old rules you'd be fudged to death and had no chance at all against a competant opponent.

I do have to chuckle at the 'skill shot'.. it seems a lofty name for what's sometimes only a basic cannon of a 6' or 7' table. Is it really all that skillfull?

[Mr O]

clearing a table is skilful, and let's face it, if pockets are blocked what's a more attractive proposition; to leave an angle to pot yours and cannon into the blocked pocket to give yourself a chance of clearing up. Or be faced with no option but pot your opponents ball giving away a foul? You want attacking rules, play Blackball ,)

[DandyA]

yep I'd agree BlackBall are the best rules - everything makes sense in BlackBall ...

our league plays old EPA rules which are OK ... I consider it my own silly fault if I go for a finish but leave one ball on the table when my opponent has 7 - he should win ... but it makes you very reticent to let the white run loose just in case it cannons another ball and goes in-off ...

World Rules are simply terrible ... deliberate fouls are allowed ... whatever are they thinking of ...

[perpetualboredom]

Deliberate fouls have to be allowed.. as any old epa player knows.. loss of game for a deliberate foul is impossible to enforce... or you have all those 'accidental' fouls.. "I thought I slid past honest guv".

The game doesnt have to be all about attack attack attack anyway. Some of the frames I've enjoyed most have been hour long grinds from hopeless positions at either set of rules.

[dantuck_7]

I had my world-rules match yesterday, lost 3-1 in about 20 minutes! It was just all-out potting, had one chance to play a deliberate foul when I ran out of position, but wasn't sure what was the best move, so went for a pot, missed, opponent cleared up. lol. It was like a 3 minute 5-a-side match in comparison to normal EPA, which would normally be an hour or so. Very costly if you make a mistake, as I found out.

[Watford]

I've played old EPA rules where inferior players (players not capable of clearing in one visit) tap up making single games take over an hour. Those rules were terrible and only people who can't pot four balls in a row like them

You see more tight WR frames in team matches especially when it's close and the pressure kicks in. At my match last night last two frames ended with last red ball over a bag yellow ball close to that pocket and one yellow up table. Different out comes to two frames.

[DandyA]

I've played old EPA rules where inferior players (players not capable of clearing in one visit) tap up making single games take over an hour. Those rules were terrible and only people who can't pot four balls in a row like them

You see more tight WR frames in team matches especially when it's close and the pressure kicks in. At my match last night last two frames ended with last red ball over a bag yellow ball close to that pocket and one yellow up table. Different out comes to two frames.

well, trying to discuss this and taking "inferior players not capable of clearing in one visit" out of the equation because I think that's a defamatory comment which implies World Rules or BlackBall players must somehow be better than old EPA rules players ...

yep for sure, old EPA allows an easy rollup or indeed a very difficult rollup ... the skill of an old EPA player is to make sure his or her opponent has neither ... either by not potting balls until he or she is ready to finish or by making sure the white is in such a position not to make a rollup easy ... this is old EPA pool ...

World Rules annoy me ... I don't play it personally but I have seen probably all the matches available on www.CueSport.tv and it really annoys me that player A could have gone to a lot of trouble setting up a good position but then player B commits a deliberate foul ... that cannot be right ...

BlackBall sorts this ... got to hit a cushion or pot so no easy rollups but there again, deliberate fouls aren't allowed ... combination shots can be used and are used to clear pockets ...

with regard to whoever made the point that deliberate fouls have to be allowed because it's impossible for a referee to determine whether a foul is deliberate or not ... absolute nonsense - if the ref isn't quite sure, he could ask the player and the player will tell the truth ... this is pool/billiards/snooker we're talking about where the players are honest and play in a sportsmanlike manner at all times ... not like some other sports I could mention ...

[DandyA]

just to add to my last point (sportsmanlike behaviour) ... I really do think snooker has led the way on this one over many years from the top down ...

I play for my pub in the local 8ball league ... we shake hands before the game, we shake hands after the game and we call fouls on ourselves ... that is the true spirit of a sporting game ... that is a huge strength whether at pro-level or simply a bit of fun down the pub on a Monday night ...

other sports could do well to learn from that instead of apparently condoning cheating ...

[perpetualboredom]

with regard to whoever made the point that deliberate fouls have to be allowed because it's impossible for a referee to determine whether a foul is deliberate or not ... absolute nonsense - if the ref isn't quite sure, he could ask the player and the player will tell the truth ... this is pool/billiards/snooker we're talking about where the players are honest and play in a sportsmanlike manner at all times ... not like some other sports I could mention ...

Where do you play?!?! While it may be the case at interleague, county level etc.. most pool is played in a pub, with lots of people out for a drink more than a competitive game. A lot of players do call fouls on themselves (not all by a long way), but this rule was always explotited since it is NEVER called at local league level. When we played old EPA I'd say a referee could have called loss of frame at least once in every 12 frame night.. mis-cues, unlucky cannons, playing the foul of a cushion of two.. still very deliberate but never ever called, probably for fear of causing a riot.

[Watford]

I have to say by no mean are all fouls called by players in pub pool leagues. My team do but you always see some not called in a season.
Seeing as DandyA doesn't play World Rules I'd say he isn't playing County or Interleague; not in England anyway.

Not liking the deliberate foul is a natural reaction I didn't like it myself ten years ago. When you play it though you start to like it and it shows up numbties.
It's not cheating when it's in the rules.
I'll say again though I'd play Blackball if we all did.

I think we should start more pool threads. Instead of taking over this WR thread and turning it into a rules debate