Any World Rules players here ?

[peterpackage]

I know World rules aren't as popular

It's the main set of rules played in Australia

Just wondering if there are any world rules players here ?

[Souwester]

World Rules are apparently more prevalent in England than Federation rules, but some still play 'old' rules! I play World Rules in the local league I play in, and I quite enjoy playing under those rules compared to 'old' rules. Never played Federation rules.

[old school]

World and "old rules" popular in the Staffordshire area,the North of England has several thriving leagues and major competitions run under World rules.You are not alone,my friend.

[Gamma]

I am from Oxfordshire, and play World rules in the leagues around here, but also play in the Buckingham League, which still play Old Rules. I much prefer World rules as i feel it is a better way to play the game apart from the whole 'professional deliberate foul'.

Not played much blackball rules though, but like the whole 'skill shot' thing.

[DocJ]

I'm also from Oxfordshire, and although there is plenty of world rules played accross the county, Oxford itself is dominated by Blackball rules. The argument about which is better could go on for ages.......at the end of the day it's just which you prefer personally. I've never played World Rules, so can't really give an opinion.

Although I will add that the scope for being able to commit a deliberate foul (what we now term a tactical foul) has now extended to Blackball rules as well.......we had a LONG debate over it in my league (Abingdon) and eneded up consulting the rule makers themselves. They confirmed that as long as you hit your own ball first, the foul is deliberate but cannot be classed as a loss of frame foul!

[Gamma]

Quote DocJ: They confirmed that as long as you hit your own ball first, the foul is deliberate but cannot be classed as a loss of frame foul!

Just want to clarify what you mean there. Quite often in World Rules a player will play a deliberate foul, i.e. strike the cueball with no intention of making a legal shot, say playing into one of their opponents balls, the black ball, or no ball at all, in such a way that the 2 shots they give away to their opponent are of no advantage. As long as the player with the 2 shots is not in a 'total snooker' then they have to play the cue ball from where it is(if they are in a 'total snooker' they can have ball in hand).

[DocJ]

I was hoping I wouldn't be asked to explain this

The Blackball rules state that any deliberate attempt to play a shot that isn't legal will result in a loss of frame foul. The definition of a legal shot is that you must hit your own ball first and that after hitting said ball any other ball must hit a cushion or you must pot one of your own balls.

Now, consider this situation - A red ball is completely covering a corner pocket. You're yellows, and you have a yellow touching this red. There's no way you can squeeze the yellow past but to play the yellow and pot the red would be a deliberate foul - wouldn't it? Well, a legal shot is fulfilled if you hit your ball first and then hit a cushion afterwards. It's still a foul but NOT a loss of frame foul. The key argument is whether you attempted to play a legal shot or not.......you could say you were just trying to skim the yellow or something similar.....basically nobody can prove that there wasn't an attempt.

Unfortunately the rules contradict themselves, which is why we contacted the blackball people to try to sort it out. Obviously hitting an opponents ball or the black deliberately is still a loss of frame foul......but when you hit your own ball first, you can now do what you like

Hopefully that helps!

[Souwester]

As I understand it Blackball rules don't allow deliberate fouls, unlike World Rules.

[DocJ]

That's what I thought.......but as long as you hit your own ball first you CAN foul deliberately.

Contact Bill at rules@blackball.co.uk if you don't believe me

[Souwester]

I believe you, and I can understand the rules committee clarification. My last response was aimed at Gamma, and was perhaps incomplete.

The situation you've described is much the same as in snooker: as long as you first make contact with the ball on, any subsequent foul is not deemed to be deliberate. In snooker for example, imagine the scenario where the striker is 34 points ahead, and on a colour (having potted the penultimate red) with the last red left hanging over the pocket, and a colour very close to it. The position of the colours mean that a safety shot isn't easy and is more than likely going to leave the red and colours for his opponent to clear up. The striker therefore decides to play the colour near the red, and after first striking the colour cannons the reds which enters the pocket. Four points to his opponent, but the opponent now needs a snooker. It can't be proved the foul was deliberate.

[Gamma]

Thats in blackball, and i like it! It makes for some clever shot choices sometimes. But the whole deliberate foul in World Rules is very frustating, as i dont think that fouling deliberately should benefit the player who fouls, but if they play the shot the way they intend, generally it does, and i've just never got my head around that!

[DocJ]

Actually, I would say that the scope for using fouls tactically is probably wider in World Rules because you can hit any ball, not just your own. In Blackball it's only really useful for clearing pockets, and even then it's mainly used as a last resort. Most people don't like to play the shot, and some refuse to play it because they think it's just cheating.....even though it's officially allowed!

Also, you have to remember that the punishment for these fouls is different too. In Blackball you have a free shot and a vist, so any advantage gained from the deliberate foul can probably be countered by your opponent in the very next shot. In World Rules you may get two shots carry but you don't get a free ball unless your snookered after the foul (I think?), so there's more scope to leave a sitaution which your opponent can do nothing about.....unless he or she deliberate fouls as well of course.

[Gamma]

I couldnt agree more about the scope for using deliberate fouls tactically more in World rules. I like the 'skill shot' in Blackball, because it allows the play to continue fluidly when pockets are covered, rather than teh deliberate fould in world rules, and the easy tuck up in old rules.

You are correct about the free ball when you are snookered after a foul in World rules(foul) snooker. I am one of those who tries not to use the deliberate foul, for the reason stated above, it just feels like cheating, and you can get games that just go from deliberate foul to deliberate foul sometimes.

[Gamma]

Also, in World Rules on a foul snooker, the player can have ball in hand(as long as he asks the ref).

[davidwu]

we always play world rules in college tournament.