English 8 ball pool tactics?

[sootyvrs]

Hi all

I'm new here and used to play a lot of snooker many years ago. I started in 1982 and probably stopped around 20 years ago with some very brief games now and again. I would say at my peak (25 yrs ago) I would be a regular 50+ break player but would be lucky to get a 20 break these days!

The last 2 years I played the odd game of pool in between playing darts (play in a league) and I was beating all the local team league player on a regular basis. They all tried to persuade me to play for them the last 2 years but I declined as I wasn't really "into" pool and my victories were part luck than anything else. I would just pot everything and only play safe when there was absolutely no pot on!

I decided to start playing league pool a few weeks back and must admit I've been disappointed with my results and started thinking I'm letting the team down!

I have played a few games now and have started well and nearly clearing up at the first visit but run out of position usually when there is one of my balls left! Then the experienced pool player clears up and game over.....

Some games my potting success rate is 100% but one safety shot (obviously not good enough) and my opponent is back in. He post a few balls then I'm snookered again....

I appreciate that the more balls that are potted at the beginning the easier it is for the opponent as all my balls are not obstacles for his balls.

I would like to learn more about the tactical side of the game as I'm relatively new to the World Rules and competitive pool in general.

Are there any sites or useful info about there of learning about tactics to be successful?

Any help would be useful as i don't want to pack in before I've given it a chance but don't want to be losing week in week out!

[Mick Dundee]

Tough to give much advice on tactics
as much depends on your style of play and of course the
general standard that your league is
as you say you come from a snooker background
it's natural that you will play an attacking game
this seems to be becoming the norm nowadays
some situations that come up in world rules can take
a bit of getting used to
Just try to play to your strengths, get a good break
and you'll pick up the tactics as you go along
play at the best standard you can and you can learn even
if you lose
all the best for the rest of the season & stick at it

[Giggity1984]

Agree with Mick....Yeah World Rules can take some getting used to. Once your used to them though and understand them as best you can, then the best piece of advice I would give you is don't be afraid of playing a deliberate foul rather then playing the more "sporting" snooker.

If you've potted 6 of yours and have then run out of position, If an opponents ball is stopping you from potting yours, then play your ball onto theres in such a way that it pots theres and leaves yours hanging in the jaws. often it's better to give away 2 shots then to lay the snooker.

The problem with playing the "fair" snooker is that the majority of the time they get out of it legitimatley and fluke a snooker back on you or something. The other problem is, that it doesn't develop your ball in a good position, and you'll be stuck for the rest of the frame until you do develop it!

I would say keep your eyes peeled for that kind of situation. A lot of players on my team lose games trying to play "fairly", but I've got no problem fouling and gaining an advantage. Do it now when he still has plenty of balls left and the better it will work out for you!

Good luck in the rest of your games!

[eaoin11]

Hi all

I'm new here and used to play a lot of snooker many years ago. I started in 1982 and probably stopped around 20 years ago with some very brief games now and again. I would say at my peak (25 yrs ago) I would be a regular 50+ break player but would be lucky to get a 20 break these days!

The last 2 years I played the odd game of pool in between playing darts (play in a league) and I was beating all the local team league player on a regular basis. They all tried to persuade me to play for them the last 2 years but I declined as I wasn't really "into" pool and my victories were part luck than anything else. I would just pot everything and only play safe when there was absolutely no pot on!

I decided to start playing league pool a few weeks back and must admit I've been disappointed with my results and started thinking I'm letting the team down!

I have played a few games now and have started well and nearly clearing up at the first visit but run out of position usually when there is one of my balls left! Then the experienced pool player clears up and game over.....

Some games my potting success rate is 100% but one safety shot (obviously not good enough) and my opponent is back in. He post a few balls then I'm snookered again....

I appreciate that the more balls that are potted at the beginning the easier it is for the opponent as all my balls are not obstacles for his balls.

I would like to learn more about the tactical side of the game as I'm relatively new to the World Rules and competitive pool in general.

Are there any sites or useful info about there of learning about tactics to be successful?

Any help would be useful as i don't want to pack in before I've given it a chance but don't want to be losing week in week out!

I've seen this in a lot of good snooker players, but I envy them because I had the opposite problem, having learned the tactics of pool trying to beat state and national reps in pub comps before I'd really developed a good stance and cueing action. It's taken years to remedy that.

If you go to cueball.tv you can see alot of vids featuring Australia's best. I've noticed that in big tourneys featuring best of 11 matches or more, with good tables and players breaking well, our better snooker players such as Johl Younger and Steve Mifsud can win big events without much tactics at all. They pretty much go out any chance they get.

In run-of-the-mill pub comps where frames get bogged down, you really need to have a handle on blocked pocket situations, because this is really the area where you might have to think two or three shots ahead (esp in world rules pool). You can search through cueball.tv matches to try and find some of these, I'd recommend some matches between Ben Nunan and Ron Kelly, and one between Rusty Wheeler and Peter White. There's also a couple of vids featuring Mick Hill taking our players to school.

But really it's better to have some sessions with an experienced rep player who loves talking tactics if you can find one.

[DocJ]

I play Blackball rules as opposed to World Rules but either way, if you're going to go for the break and dish or even just try to clear up against the top players, you'd better be 95% sure that you're going to get it. If you're left with just one ball on the table, your options are so much more limited. You're unlikely to be able to get a snooker, and even if you do, your opponent wil have no trouble escaping with 5+ balls on the table. Also, with so many balls left your opponent will be able to just pot and tuck as necessary, developing their problem balls at the same time, and eventually they'll clear up.

If you're not winning too many matches, i'd advise taking a step back from the more attacking game and perhaps playing a bit of safety. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with confidence in your own ability but overconfidence can lead to disaster sometimes. Even when a clearance may be on, it might be worth just playing safe every now and again, perhaps developing your ball(s) at the same time. It will put the pressure back on your opponent as well, and they may well make a mistake.

Personally, I think the safety aspect of pool is sometimes forgotten in favour of the more stylish, all out potting game. When you see vids on the net 50% of the matches are just one visit to the table but it just doesn't happen like that when you play at league level.

I'm not saying change your game, just adapt it

[sootyvrs]

Thanks for all that have responded.

I'm eager to learn this game and improve and will try and watch some of the cueball.tv games as mentioned.

I'm still not 100% sure of the rules but learning as I'm going along. I thought a deliberate foul disqualifies you from the game?? May have to investigate further into that area.

So do you guys tend to not try and clear up early on in the frame i.e. after a break or 1st visit? Or is the objective to try and leave a number of balls on the table and develop the difficult balls and play safe from them until the right opportunity to clear up?

[Giggity1984]

Thanks for all that have responded.

I'm eager to learn this game and improve and will try and watch some of the cueball.tv games as mentioned.

I'm still not 100% sure of the rules but learning as I'm going along. I thought a deliberate foul disqualifies you from the game?? May have to investigate further into that area.

So do you guys tend to not try and clear up early on in the frame i.e. after a break or 1st visit? Or is the objective to try and leave a number of balls on the table and develop the difficult balls and play safe from them until the right opportunity to clear up?

Depends on the type of foul. Potting an opponents ball is a standard foul so is considered fine.

[eaoin11]

Thanks for all that have responded.

I'm eager to learn this game and improve and will try and watch some of the cueball.tv games as mentioned.

I'm still not 100% sure of the rules but learning as I'm going along. I thought a deliberate foul disqualifies you from the game?? May have to investigate further into that area.

BTW the cueball.tv vids are world rules, we don't have any blackball leagues in Aus, all of ours are with the WEPF. In world rules it's just a standard foul (2 shots). In blackball I think the rules say that you lose the frame for deliberately potting opponent's ball. When I looked into this I thought it was a bit dodgy to require the umpire to be a mindreader but apparently it's not that bad. DocJ could probably explain further.

As far as potting out goes it's a matter of playing the percentages, and the percentages depend on who you play (some will disagree). If it's Mick Hill or Ben Nunan and you have a sniff at a clearance go for it unless there's a very good safety option that helps to improve position. Do or die works better than conservative against gun players and it makes them nervous. If it's a cagey player who's better at snookering than potting it's better to consolidate position with a covered pocket and safe leave. Just make sure you have fewer dead balls than him with a way to break balls out, and don't give him chances to do the same.

If you have a ball blocking several of your opponet's you can afford to go for it and miss, but if your last ball is on the rail and you miss it's all over. Another thing you can do is play in two halves, if you keep some balls at both ends of the table it makes it harder for them to play safe.

Sorry for long posts, but it's been great to see more interest in pool on the forum lately!

[Mick Dundee]

In the blackball rules Intentionally playing
your opponents ball is loss of frame
but if you play your own ball onto theirs
whilst considered unsportsmanlike isn't
loss of frame and gives the standard penalty
of a free shot followed by one visit
because of this and also the skill shot
(being able to pot yours and your opponents ball
in the same shot providing you hit your own first with
no penalty)
this doesn't come up that often as there aren't
the same advantages as there are in world rules

[perpetualboredom]

if you play your own ball onto theirs
whilst considered unsportsmanlike

As a player of old epa rule for many a season before we converted to WR, I could give you examples every other week of deliberate sorry accidental fouls being played.. I think I can recall someone trying to call loss of frame once in all that time....... and the riot that followed. Hence why the DF foul rule was brought in.

As for a shot allowed (albeit penalised by a foul) in the rules being "unsportsmanlike", bobbins. I really really! really!! enjoy knocking my oponents white in at billiards if the moan it's unsporting too - it's a legitimate scoring stroke and always has been!

[eaoin11]

In the blackball rules Intentionally playing
your opponents ball is loss of frame
but if you play your own ball onto theirs
whilst considered unsportsmanlike isn't
loss of frame and gives the standard penalty
of a free shot followed by one visit
because of this and also the skill shot
(being able to pot yours and your opponents ball
in the same shot providing you hit your own first with
no penalty)
this doesn't come up that often as there aren't
the same advantages as there are in world rules

That makes sense then, because even in world rules if you're potting an opponent's ball it's often with one of your own because you want your ball to block the pocket and offset the two shots your opponent receives.

[sootyvrs]

Won my first singles match tonight so I'm now relieved after losing the first 3 matches.

This time my opponent did what I normally do and clear up and left the black and I managed to do a clearance... Phew... Thought I was going to get 7 balled at one stage.

[blurry_121]

i play to the epa rules, so a deliberate foul means end of game, also imo playing a deliberate foul shot should be the end of a game, totally spoils the game when some ones pots your ball to gain advantage on there game, if your good enough you shouldnt need to play such a shot, but yeh it causes a bit of a argument when a game gets called on it but you can always tell a deliberate foul imo.
matt

[eaoin11]

i play to the epa rules, so a deliberate foul means end of game, also imo playing a deliberate foul shot should be the end of a game, totally spoils the game when some ones pots your ball to gain advantage on there game, if your good enough you shouldnt need to play such a shot, but yeh it causes a bit of a argument when a game gets called on it but you can always tell a deliberate foul imo.
matt

I'd like to debate this (on a friendly level of course) but first just want to clarify if you're playing world rules or blackball? Because I thought EPA had world rules and founded the WEPF in which Australia also has membership? In world rules there's no loss of frame penalty for deliberately potting an opponent's ball, but in black ball there is. Maybe you're playing EBA (European Blackball Association).

In blackball you actually can pot your opponent's ball if you hit one of yours first. Is that so different though because it's allowed under the rules? In world rules that carries a penalty of 2 shots. If you don't mind incurring the penalty then it's no problem.

The "if you're good enough" argument doesn't wash with me, because it takes a lot less skill to block a pocket and leave it there than it does for the other player to try and dig out 2 or more balls that may be in very close contact with the blocking ball. Some players actually practise the skill of blocking pockets.

And it takes some tactical skill to pot an opponent's ball and get an advantage. It often doesn't work. I think that's the issue for some players, especially those who are new to world rules and rely on blocking pockets. It's not an ethical issue at all so long as everyone knows the rules.

Whether it spoils the game is a matter of perspective. If you accept and embrace the tactical elements of world rules with all of it's nuances it can add to the enjoyment. I personally think pool needs this extra tactical dimension because it's so easy in terms of potting and position.

[DandyA]

eaoin11 - although blurry says EPA rules (which I think these days are world rules), I think he may be talking about "old EPA" rules which we play in our local pub league ... you don't have to hit a cushion, roll-up snookers are allowed but deliberate fouls are not, two visits after a foul (with pickup and/or free ball) ...

personally, I'm quite happy with "old EPA" or blackball rules ... world rules would be OK except for the deliberate foul rule which it has to have but can make a complete mockery of an otherwise enjoyable game of pool (he can't finish so I'll foul to improve my position) ...