What is your opinion of this ruling adopted by our Pool League?

[cyprus-dodger]

We play in a local Pool League playing under World 8-Ball Pool Rules and have done so since League formation 2/3 years ago. At a meeting held last night (Monday 3rd October 2011) the Pool League Captains voted in a proposal to amend the World 8-Ball Pool Rules with a *Local Rule amendment which is as follows:

*Following any foul the oncoming player will have two visits (shots) and is also allowed under this amendment to take a "FREE BALL" as his first shot and still carry two visits.

The purpose of this proposal was that it will speed the game up and in particular stop the Professional Fouls/Deliberate Fouls as the advantage is turned to the oncoming player (well maybe).

Personally I think this is absolutely ridiculous I was amazed that out of 16 captains in attendance they had a majority of 15 to 1 in fav.

There surely must be a "Flaw" in this ruling somewhere I would appreciate your professional opinions on this ruling and if there is a "Flaw" in this ruling I would be the first to have it overturned, the league starts next Monday 10th October 2010.

Would appreciate your input.

Roger

[sootyvrs]

Problem with any local league is that they can adopt any rules they so wish and also adapt to their preference.

The "official" rules e.g. World, blackball, EPA etc... are used by the governing bodies for tournaments and competitions but unfortunately the local leagues are run by individuals who can do as they please usually done by unanimous vote.

They could in effect make up totally new set of rules independent of any of the above "official" rules.

I assume that all 16 captains have informed their respective team players so it looks like a majority want this ruling in your league.

[liquidsymphony]

in france we spent many years using an "hybrid" rules and got to deal with it.i agree that this amendment sounds ridiculous but it seems that You've got no choice . every rules got positive and negative points , i personaly play both world 8 ball pool and blackball rules and do not have any preference but the deliberate fool is to me a crucial part or world 8 rule and changing it to only a matter of speeding up the game is just a shame

[Mick Dundee]

I play both blackball and world rules
And even though I play them because they are part of the game
Ive never really liked the deliberate foul
I think that good snookers should be rewarded just as much as good
attacking pool there is an art to getting a good tight snooker
whilst having to hit a cushion, somebody can then choose not to have
a go at it and just touch the White
Like I said not wrong just not getting the rewards of a good shot
To speed world rules up without taking out the d/f perhaps the league
should adopt the skill shot which would help move the game along
without watering the rules down too much

[cyprus-dodger]

They voted to have a trial of this rule for one month- let's hope they kick it out after realizing what a stupid amendment it is.

My feeling is it will just add to the understanding and interpretation of the already difficult World 8-Ball Rules in the eyes of the average players.

The feeling was that it was regarded as "Cheating" to do a D/F ie to plant your ball and deliberately pot your opponents ball to gain an unfair advantage - so what the hell is using a FREE BALL on your first shot doing, exactly the same as "Cheating" is it not?

[BadMadWicked]

I have to agree with Mick Dundee here - I never liked deliberate fouls either! These days with EPA rules no one even attempts to get out of a really tricky snooker they just role up to your ball and give away 2 visits expecting you to miss the first pot. Personally I think if you are an attacking player then free balls will be good news. Its the players who like to grind out a game who will probably be less happy. Just my opinion :-)

[liquidsymphony]

deliberate fool Is not cheating .i think this is a realy interesting aspect of worldm 8 rules ( or 9 ball ) because you Can do whatever you want it's just a question of assuming the consequences of these fools . they want to speed up the game ? shot clock .
...

[DocJ]

I agree that this ruling seems ridiculous. We play Blackball rules in our league but I have had the opportunity to play WR on a few occasions, and surely giving away two shots carry is punishment enough for a deliberate foul. Any decent player will just clear the table with two shots carry AND a free ball. The cheating comments also confuse me - if it's in the rules, how can it possibly be cheating?! If it gains an unfair advantage for a player, his/her opponent has the chance to DF right back, which may well negate any advantage gained.

The DF element of WR is something that a lot of Blackball players don't seem to like but personally, I think it adds an interesting tactical side to the game. Shame I never get to use it

I hope your league has the sense to not adopt it after the trial........

[jaffa.johnson]

I personally much prefer the old EPA rules which we play in our wednesday league but the world rules are also good and make the game complete different tactically.

One thing I dont like about old EPA rules is you are the colour you pot off the break if its only one ball potted. I sometimes pot a red with rest in a pack and all yellows on for clearance. Very frustrating.

I think your rule effectively will change the amount of deliberately fouls being played as if you are too deliberate foul, your gonna have to make sure you leave no pot of any colour on otherwise the opponent is in.

It could work as a positive if you are an attacking player who wants to clear his balls up as quick as possible.

If your a slow player and like to get into a tactical battle then I cant see the ruling benefiting you.

[danam1]

I have to agree with Mick Dundee here - I never liked deliberate fouls either! These days with EPA rules no one even attempts to get out of a really tricky snooker they just role up to your ball and give away 2 visits expecting you to miss the first pot. Personally I think if you are an attacking player then free balls will be good news. Its the players who like to grind out a game who will probably be less happy. Just my opinion :-)

I know what you are saying but there is no reason why you cant do the same.
As cyprus-dodger says it is actually a "profesional foul". I play both rules and find world rules to be more of a tactical
game. Who says it has to be fast and furious? I try and play both ways, if the clear up is "on" I go for it. If not I will play tactically
until i'm in a commanding position. At the end of the day the idea is to win. So as long as you play to the rules I cant see the problem. And lets face it, how many times is the p/f actually used? I have played whole matches (10 frames) and not p/f once.

ATB
Danny

[old school]

Roger,please clarify "free ball" rule.i.e. Player comes to the table following a foul and has two shots (continuous) can he/she pot any ball on the table including his/her opponents,with the exception of the black,including using an opponents ball or the black as a plant to pot your own or clear a bag ,still carrying two shots if a successful pot is made ? If this is the case it is similar to a rule used under "old rules" in my area back in the late 80s early 90s.I dislike the DF aspect of World Rules myself and think that your new league ruling will speed the game up and I agree with DocJ most good players will clear with two shots and a free ball.DFs are immensely frustrating and personally I think sometimes they are an insult as you are basically saying to your opponent " I dont think you will clear these and thats why I am giving you two shots".Most World Rules players will play a DF in situations where you will have to waste one shot for position (effectively reducing the "foul" to a one shot penalty) and this can lead to very tactical exchanges,but a DF is not as skillful as a well laid snooker,but then again in World Rules you do not "have" to escape a snooker because of the DF scenario and thus around in circles you go etc,etc,etc ad infinitum.Best thing you can do is trial this new ruling and see how it is received by the league players (not the captains or committee) as they are the ones who have to play and abide by the rules and they will soon tell you if you have it wrong,such as dropping out of the league and revenue reduction etc.Good luck,I think you will need it.

[cyprus-dodger]

Yes exactly as you have written it below.

"Player comes to the table following a foul and has two shots (continuous) can he/she pot any ball on the table including his/her opponents,with the exception of the black,including using an opponents ball or the black as a plant to pot your own or clear a bag ,still carrying two shots if a successful pot is made."

[cyprus-dodger]

Player "A" breaks commits foul break - oncoming Player "B" balls are re-racked and two shots given Player "B" has two shots and "FREE BALL" under this adopted rule so which ball is the "FREE BALL" ?

[DocJ]

I guess common sense would say that the free ball should only apply if the balls aren't re-racked. If they are, I would say the free ball ruling couldn't apply - otherwise you'd have to have a sitaution where either a) You break and then have a free ball plus two shots, or b) The free ball would be the actual break shot. In scenario a the player would have a monumental advantage, having a break AND then a free ball AND two shots carry, and in scenario b the player would have lost his free ball and one of his two shots if he doesn't pot off the break - no advantage at all really.

It sounds like whoever came up with this idea hasn't really thought about it properly, as you'll soon be getting in to situations where the rules contradict themselves. Still, the Blackball rules do exactly that, so it's nothing new...........

[Mick Dundee]

How do the blackball rules do that?