Reracks in the league

[tommydale]

So World Rules changed years ago, apparently. The place I learnt to play in, over 10 years ago now when I was like 6, don't play cushion rules - after contact nothing has to hit the cushion. Meant you could tuck up a lot easier, but now there's more skill involved in a successful safety shot. I like it. I've only been playing 'New Rules' (well they are to me!) for about a year and am still having some sort of trouble understanding what's going on.

While I only play for my pub's B-Team on a Wednesday, at home games as expected one of us referees the match. Other players are not allowed to comment on the rules or decisions, otherwise I would have had it cleared up there and then. A situation occurred where both players played deliberate fouls 3x each, where only the white moved and no other balls were moved. On 2 fouls each I called both captains to say that one more each and the frame will be restarted. No one was particularly happy about it :'). But my question is, as the referee did I make the right call by doing that, because the game was going absolutely nowhere? Or should I have left them to it until one of them caved?

• Furthermore, talking about reracks, if a player requests a rerack, I assume both players must agree to have the balls reracked for it to occur? Or is it the referee's decision to deem it suitable should a player ask?
• Another rerack situation, if less than 4 balls touch a cushion on the break then the opposing player has 2 shots and the choice of a rerack, right? As in, they don't have to rerack, do they?
• Right, last question, honest. Is a rerack only available following <4 balls touching the cushion or can there be a rerack if the white leaves the table and doesn't return on the black?

Well there's enough to keep people occupied for a while :'). I hope I'm not clogging up the forum, do tell me if I should shh

[SnkrRef]

In your first scenario, it is an *automatic* re-rack if *each* player plays three consecutive deliberate fouls by not hitting an object ball (section X of the rules). A player or both players cannot request a re-rack.

In your second scenario, again the balls are automatically re-racked after a break that is not a fair break. The opponent plays from in hand with two visits. (section F of the rules)

I don't quite understand your final question.

[DeanH]

A situation occurred where both players played deliberate fouls 3x each, where only the white moved and no other balls were moved. On 2 fouls each I called both captains to say that one more each and the frame will be restarted. No one was particularly happy about it :'). But my question is, as the referee did I make the right call by doing that, because the game was going absolutely nowhere? Or should I have left them to it until one of them caved?

You were spot on from how you describe it.
Rule X Stalemate: The referee shall declare a Stalemate if both the player and the opponent have three turns in succession where the Cue Ball fails to make contact with an Object Ball. In such a case, the frame will be replayed with the same player breaking.
They may not be happy but you did right, calling both players (?) giving them warning with one more shot each, if then both do nothing to change the play, then rerack, with the following call: "Stalemate, Re-start of Frame, Same Player to Break”, “One Visit”."

• Furthermore, talking about reracks, if a player requests a rerack, I assume both players must agree to have the balls reracked for it to occur? Or is it the referee's decision to deem it suitable should a player ask?

Only the referee can decide if the play is not progressing and a rerack but as you ask if a player requests a rerack, as a ref I probably would by that time know whether the play is in/or close to stalemate and probably have a decision in mind. If only one player wants a rerack, you also have to be happy that both players do and don't gain/loss advantage. If both players agree for a rerack, your decision is on whether the play is not going anywhere.

• Another rerack situation, if less than 4 balls touch a cushion on the break then the opposing player has 2 shots and the choice of a rerack, right? As in, they don't have to rerack, do they?

The non-offending player has two visits but the balls are rerack - there is no choice - the non-offending player now has to achieve a Fair Break.

• Right, last question, honest. Is a rerack only available following <4 balls touching the cushion or can there be a rerack if the white leaves the table and doesn't return on the black?

The cue ball leaving the table does not constitute a rerack, but only has the Cue Ball as Ball in Hand. i.e. play from the baulk area, two visits. Sorry but what does "and doesn't return on the black?" mean?

Well there's enough to keep people occupied for a while :'). I hope I'm not clogging up the forum, do tell me if I should shh

no worries keep asking questions, only way to learn and improve our love of the game

[tommydale]

You were spot on from how you describe it.
Rule X Stalemate: The referee shall declare a Stalemate if both the player and the opponent have three turns in succession where the Cue Ball fails to make contact with an Object Ball. In such a case, the frame will be replayed with the same player breaking.
They may not be happy but you did right, calling both players (?) giving them warning with one more shot each, if then both do nothing to change the play, then rerack, with the following call: "Stalemate, Re-start of Frame, Same Player to Break”, “One Visit”."

That is fantastic, thank you both for that! I called over the team captains, not the players themselves, to ask if I was within my refereeing rights to do so. I assume that this was a mistake and should have spoken directly to the players themselves? I'll remember that for next time.

Only the referee can decide if the play is not progressing and a rerack but as you ask if a player requests a rerack, as a ref I probably would by that time know whether the play is in/or close to stalemate and probably have a decision in mind. If only one player wants a rerack, you also have to be happy that both players do and don't gain/loss advantage. If both players agree for a rerack, your decision is on whether the play is not going anywhere.

That makes more sense. So the ref's decision is final? As in, if both players agree on a rerack it's still down to the ref to decide whether or not it's suitable even though both players have agreed?

The non-offending player has two visits but the balls are rerack - there is no choice - the non-offending player now has to achieve a Fair Break.

OOOOOOO, okay then! I thought there was a choice, but that's good stuff. So there is a mandatory rerack, right

The cue ball leaving the table does not constitute a rerack, but only has the Cue Ball as Ball in Hand. i.e. play from the baulk area, two visits. Sorry but what does "and doesn't return on the black?" mean?

Okay, so the white leaves the table and it's no rerack, not even the choice of a rerack? I'm not sure why I wrote that :'). I think I meant, 'and doesn't return back on the table.' I'm very sorry! :')

Thank you both for your replies!

[SnkrRef]

Only the referee can decide if the play is not progressing and a rerack but as you ask if a player requests a rerack, as a ref I probably would by that time know whether the play is in/or close to stalemate and probably have a decision in mind. If only one player wants a rerack, you also have to be happy that both players do and don't gain/loss advantage. If both players agree for a rerack, your decision is on whether the play is not going anywhere.

I'm not entirely sure you're right there Dean. As far as I can see from the rules, the only mention of a stalemate is in Section X, which only provides for a stalemate to be called if both players fail to hit an object ball on three successive visits. The Guidance to Referees says nothing more on the subject either.

[SnkrRef]

Okay, so the white leaves the table and it's no rerack, not even the choice of a rerack?

Nope, there's no choice of a re-rack.

[tommydale]

I'm not entirely sure you're right there Dean. As far as I can see from the rules, the only mention of a stalemate is in Section X, which only provides for a stalemate to be called if both players fail to hit an object ball on three successive visits. The Guidance to Referees says nothing more on the subject either.

If it's not a stalemate situation where either the game isn't going anywhere or it is a particularly difficult situation (i.e. red and yellow somehow touching ball on the black right in the jaw!), could it just be a mutual rerack? I don't have a clue what it's called other than a stalemate to be fair - is there a different name for this?

Nope, there's no choice of a re-rack.

Thank you kindly!

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