Different rules for different rules of UK 8-Ball

[tommydale]

Thanks mate, yeah, based on what was written in those rules, that is correct . I think I may have been victim to local rules - especially as the table was coin operated. No one wanted to rerack, especially on the break, and so just carried on. No one nominated off the break either!

Might just take current EPA exam

[DandyA]

Thanks mate, yeah, based on what was written in those rules, that is correct . I think I may have been victim to local rules - especially as the table was coin operated. No one wanted to rerack, especially on the break, and so just carried on. No one nominated off the break either!

Might just take current EPA exam

yes, I think you'd probably be better off becoming an expert on one set of rules first ... once you know those inside out, it becomes easier to note the differences to other sets of rules ...

do you play league pool? whatever rules they play might be a good start

[DandyA]

I hope I'm not being too geeky and putting tommy off ... as I said earlier, I admire your enthusiasm so I wish you the very best mate, there's a lot to learn but I'm sure you can do it and I doubt the examiner for your exams will be as tough (or geeky) as I am LOL ...

whilst reading the "old EPA" rules to answer the questions I'd set, I noticed this ... and I've seen this happen at least a couple of times over the last few years playing pub league UK 8ball pool ...

Player A breaks off and accidentally pockets the white ball ... foul, two visits with ball in hand to his opponent Player B ... Player B wants to choose yellows but there's a red blocking a pocket so he announces "freeball", pots the red and then plays a yellow ...

what should the ref do? I'd have very definitely got this wrong ...

[Dave Walton]

I hope I'm not being too geeky and putting tommy off ... as I said earlier, I admire your enthusiasm so I wish you the very best mate, there's a lot to learn but I'm sure you can do it and I doubt the examiner for your exams will be as tough (or geeky) as I am LOL ...

whilst reading the "old EPA" rules to answer the questions I'd set, I noticed this ... and I've seen this happen at least a couple of times over the last few years playing pub league UK 8ball pool ...

Player A breaks off and accidentally pockets the white ball ... foul, two visits with ball in hand to his opponent Player B ... Player B wants to choose yellows but there's a red blocking a pocket so he announces "freeball", pots the red and then plays a yellow ...

what should the ref do? I'd have very definitely got this wrong ...

As far as I'm aware the ref shouldn't do anything as after the free ball the table returns to being open. Which is how I believe old EPA was before it was fazed out however in one of the leagues I play in player B would be required to nominate after the Freeball, in which case as the ref you should ask player B to nominate his colour

[DandyA]

As far as I'm aware the ref shouldn't do anything as after the free ball the table returns to being open. Which is how I believe old EPA was before it was fazed out however in one of the leagues I play in player B would be required to nominate after the Freeball, in which case as the ref you should ask player B to nominate his colour

unless I seriously misread the rules (and I don't think I did), that's not correct Dave ... not even close to being correct ... I can understand what you're saying and I would have said something similar ...

but it's not right ... anyone else?

{edit] ... just to note we are talking about "old EPA" rules ... I don't know but it might well be different in other rules ...

[Dave Walton]

As far as I'm aware the ref shouldn't do anything as after the free ball the table returns to being open. Which is how I believe old EPA was before it was fazed out however in one of the leagues I play in player B would be required to nominate after the Freeball, in which case as the ref you should ask player B to nominate his colour

unless I seriously misread the rules (and I don't think I did), that's not correct Dave ... not even close to being correct ... I can understand what you're saying and I would have said something similar ...

but it's not right ... anyone else?

{edit] ... just to note we are talking about "old EPA" rules ... I don't know but it might well be different in other rules ...

I think I know how you've read it as in you've potted a legal ball/s from the Freeball therefore you would be required to continue on the colour you potted from the freeball, so in your description the referee should call the foul for hitting a yellow after they'd potted the red.

I don't think that is correct though and after a freeball the table returns to being open

[DandyA]

I think I know how you've read it as in you've potted a legal ball/s from the Freeball therefore you would be required to continue on the colour you potted from the freeball, so in your description the referee should call the foul for hitting a yellow after they'd potted the red.

I don't think that is correct though and after a freeball the table returns to being open

yes, that's how I read it ... by potting the red, Player B has selected reds (the announcement of freeball has no meaning) so by then playing a yellow it's a foul ... here's the relevant rules, once again "old EPA" rules ...

rule 4E ... On the first occasion a player legally pockets an object ball, including following a foul, then that ball denotes their group, unless one or more of both groups are pocketed, the player MUST then nominate a group before play continues.

rule 4G ... If a foul is committed, (other than as in rule 4(D)), and one or more object balls are pocketed before playing groups are decided, then those balls are ignored in determining the groups to be played. The oncoming player may play at any ball on the table, including the 8 ball (black) for the first shot, the first legal pot to determine the group as in rule 4(E).

rule 6C ... On the first shot only of the first visit, the oncoming player may, without nomination, play the cue ball on to any ball without penalty, including any opponent's ball(s), or 8 ball (black). If any object ball(s) is pocketed directly, or by combination, the player is deemed to have pocketed a legal ball(s), and continues with the first visit. However, the player must not pot the 8 ball (black), which would mean loss of game. Except if the player is on the 8 ball (black), then the game would be won. When the player fails to pot a ball on the first or subsequent shot of the first visit, play then continues with the second visit. The second visit is deemed to have started when the cue ball is struck on the first shot of the second visit.

6C says you don't need to nominate a freeball (although players often do) so doing so has no meaning ... 4E and 4G make it clear that if no colour has been set, then the first pot sets that colour (ie, a freeball is not available) ...

[Dave Walton]

I think I know how you've read it as in you've potted a legal ball/s from the Freeball therefore you would be required to continue on the colour you potted from the freeball, so in your description the referee should call the foul for hitting a yellow after they'd potted the red.

I don't think that is correct though and after a freeball the table returns to being open

yes, that's how I read it ... by potting the red, Player B has selected reds (the announcement of freeball has no meaning) so by then playing a yellow it's a foul ... here's the relevant rules, once again "old EPA" rules ...

rule 4E ... On the first occasion a player legally pockets an object ball, including following a foul, then that ball denotes their group, unless one or more of both groups are pocketed, the player MUST then nominate a group before play continues.

rule 4G ... If a foul is committed, (other than as in rule 4(D)), and one or more object balls are pocketed before playing groups are decided, then those balls are ignored in determining the groups to be played. The oncoming player may play at any ball on the table, including the 8 ball (black) for the first shot, the first legal pot to determine the group as in rule 4(E).

rule 6C ... On the first shot only of the first visit, the oncoming player may, without nomination, play the cue ball on to any ball without penalty, including any opponent's ball(s), or 8 ball (black). If any object ball(s) is pocketed directly, or by combination, the player is deemed to have pocketed a legal ball(s), and continues with the first visit. However, the player must not pot the 8 ball (black), which would mean loss of game. Except if the player is on the 8 ball (black), then the game would be won. When the player fails to pot a ball on the first or subsequent shot of the first visit, play then continues with the second visit. The second visit is deemed to have started when the cue ball is struck on the first shot of the second visit.

6C says you don't need to nominate a freeball (although players often do) so doing so has no meaning ... 4E and 4G make it clear that if no colour has been set, then the first pot sets that colour (ie, a freeball is not available) ...

Totally understand how you've read it, I'm still not completely clear on it as its still a free ball and a freeball is exactly that so I would still say its the next ball you pot after the freeball. A lot of rules seem to be open to inturpitation but the way its written does seem to state that it would be a foul.

[DandyA]

Totally understand how you've read it, I'm still not completely clear on it as its still a free ball and a freeball is exactly that so I would still say its the next ball you pot after the freeball. A lot of rules seem to be open to inturpitation but the way its written does seem to state that it would be a foul.

I have to say I'd be very reluctant to call this in a match (I'm not a qualified ref, simply the teams alternate in providing a ref) ... but rule 4E does seem to be clear with no room for misinterpretation ...

rule 4E ... On the first occasion a player legally pockets an object ball, including following a foul, then that ball denotes their group, unless one or more of both groups are pocketed, the player MUST then nominate a group before play continues.

that's actually one of the reasons I like the "old EPA" rules ... they are clear and precise (and short) apart from the woolly push-shot rule ...

so please try arguing your case for a freeball ... I agree, I would have allowed it in the past and only noticed it was wrong as I was doing research for tommy's "exam" ...

and just to add mischievously ... I've seen 12 people arguing forever whether, under World Rules, the player was in a total snooker or could see a sliver of one of his balls ... I personally thought it was hilarious as we just don't have these problems with "old EPA" ...

[DandyA]

or I suppose to put it another way ... the rules say you can only have a freeball if the colours are decided ... if they aren't decided, you can't have one and the first legal pot sets the colour ...

[Dave Walton]

I know what you mean about it saying even after a foul but that doesn't take the freeball rule into consideration. Honestly think its a loophole that hasn't been covered properly and if I was refereeing I personally wouldn't call the foul, I could well be totally wrong though mate

[DandyA]

I know what you mean about it saying even after a foul but that doesn't take the freeball rule into consideration. Honestly think its a loophole that hasn't been covered properly and if I was refereeing I personally wouldn't call the foul, I could well be totally wrong though mate

fair enough Dave ... we've already hijacked tommy's thread enough so perhaps we should leave it there ... I hope we haven't put you off tommy - it's in the nature of pool/snooker players that we argue a lot lol but we're friends really ...

[mrbluejay]

The regional rule bit applies, here in Newport & Cardiff blackball rules apply, but without the cushion rule. To further complicate things, in Newport if you pot off the break you can still nominate the other ball group, in Cardiff if you pot a red off the break that's what you are on !