World rules v blackball rules...

[Paul_plaster]

Which rules do you most prefer.? I've played both and my preference is world rules...I think you can control the game better,and I think world rules are slightly more attacking....IMO. Which do you prefer and why?

[DeanH]

I play World Rules and I do like them in general, except... I hate allowed deliberate fouls and I miss Combination shots

[Benno]

Blackball rules, FAR more attacking. More pressure to get out or play tight safety. Favours the better player. I'd much rather watch a competition of blackball rules.

Now if just you could find someone in Australia that played them. Time will tell.

[DandyA]

I play World Rules and I do like them in general, except... I hate allowed deliberate fouls and I miss Combination shots

I know I'm simplifying a bit but surely that's the beauty of Blackball rules - pretty much the same as World Rules except those annoying deliberate fouls aren't allowed but combination shots are ...

So, for instance, if your opponent has a pocket blocked which you need ... in World Rules, you simply play a deliberate foul to clear the pocket ... in Blackball, you have to play a skill (combination) shot to clear the pocket ... much better ...

Mind you, I don't mind old EPA rules - although they invite fudging, there is a lot of skill in fudging successfully ...

My preference would be Blackball first, old EPA second and World Rules third ... although I accept I'm probably in a minority of 1 in that opinion ...

[Benno]

Far more deliberate fouls in world rules. At a decent level, blackball players don't mess about leaving balls near pockets for fear of a skill shot. Allowing a legal pot of the opponents ball during a successful pot does wonders in opening up a frame, as does the rule allowing any ball to be played after the break and whatever is potted next is 'on'.

AFAIK the only rule that really annoys players in BB is accidental pots of the opponents ball on a successful pot. Can't say it worries me that much as it opens up the game and puts more control in an aggressive players hands - the way it should always be!

I reckon if you played BB your game will progress faster at an intermediate level.

[DandyA]

AFAIK the only rule that really annoys players in BB is accidental pots of the opponents ball on a successful pot. Can't say it worries me that much as it opens up the game and puts more control in an aggressive players hands - the way it should always be!

I can't see why that would annoy a BB player ... even at my lowly level (decent pub player), I have enough skill to avoid doing it when playing WR or old EPA ... if playing BB, it doesn't matter so I may well let the white cannon an opponents ball to act as a stopper ...

my only contentious issue with BB is picking up the white and playing from baulk after a foul ... sometimes that's a very harsh penalty ... but there again, it stops your opponent playing an "accidentally on purpose" foul and leaving the white in a difficult position so I support it ...

it's clear and simple - if you don't want your opponent to gain a significant advantage, don't foul ...

the problem I see with WR, is that you can foul on purpose and gain an advantage yourself - that seems contrary to common sense ...

[Benno]

the problem I see with WR, is that you can foul on purpose and gain an advantage yourself - that seems contrary to common sense ...

Couldn't agree more, over here in league pool (WR) you get 4 frames on comp nights, each against a different opponent from the other side. Because it's essentially one frame pool and you don't play four in a row, safety becomes a big factor and usually frames get shut down and slugged out, even at division 1 level. Typically frames get fudged rather than dished, usually with the player holding back benefitting from two near the end of the frame. It's very frustrating and unless the finish is 80% there, most players err on the side of caution and don't go out for fear of ending up never seeing their last 1/2/3 balls. Which is part of the game, but I like the way BB counters this. Naturally good players just dish up (same with WR).

Also I don't have the same issue with WR when it's say a race to 5 as players tend to get in rhythm and get flowing, but I don't think WR is good for one frame pool and developing players into better potters (especially at the intermediate level).

[danam1]

Couldn't agree more, over here in league pool (WR) you get 4 frames on comp nights, each against a different opponent from the other side. Because it's essentially one frame pool and you don't play four in a row, safety becomes a big factor and usually frames get shut down and slugged out, even at division 1 level. Typically frames get fudged rather than dished, usually with the player holding back benefitting from two near the end of the frame. It's very frustrating and unless the finish is 80% there, most players err on the side of caution and don't go out for fear of ending up never seeing their last 1/2/3 balls. Which is part of the game, but I like the way BB counters this. Naturally good players just dish up (same with WR).

Also I don't have the same issue with WR when it's say a race to 5 as players tend to get in rhythm and get flowing, but I don't think WR is good for one frame pool and developing players into better potters (especially at the intermediate level).

I prefer WR because I like tactical games. I also think there is a lot of skill in playing a GOOD professional foul, after all its the same for both players.
I have to agree with Benno though. It's not always great for one frame pool.
Saying that though, when you watch the pro's on sky at the moment they don't play hardly any PF's. A lot of players in my league don't play them either.

[rdsalt]

One thing I like with WR is that you always have an option when you are in a tricky situation, you can play a DF or try to get out of a snooker in a way that you know you are going to make it difficult for your opponent should you miss. A lot of times in WR you would be silly even attempting to get out of a snooker as you can make things worse for your opponent by playing a DF even though you are giving him 2 shots, whereas in Blackball you have no option but to attempt an escape. A good tactician can control the frame in WR in a way that is not possible in Blackball due to the free shot after a foul, so WR gives an experienced player more of an advantage. Blackball is much easier to learn and play and discourages blocking pockets, you need to think carefully what your best option is if you do get 2 shots with the ability to basically do anything with your free shot but there is more pressure on the finish as 2 shots do not carry so you cannot make a mistake going for the finish like you can in WR. The nature of pool means you are pretty much always in trouble if you go for the finish and fail with 1 ball left regardless of the rules as your opponent has so many balls left to develop and play snookers etc it makes him big favourite after you miss. Our league has recently changed to Blackball so we are just starting to get used to it, I will say though that there has been very few incidents/arguments over the Blackball rules compared to the time we switched to WR many years ago, at that time several players stopped playing and our league even split in two due to the controversy over the DF's which many players still see as cheating. Going to Blackball has reunited our two leagues again. Regardless of the rules our matches seem to be taking much the same length of time so its difficult to say either rules make the game quicker although I think you have more chance of getting a marathon frame in WR.

As said team matches are like a series of final frame deciders and can often get tactical, in this situation WR can be more aggressive because players will go for the finish more often with the benefit of 2 shots carrying, whereas in Blackball you often see players take out a bad ball with their free shot then snooker again. At TV level it doesn't seem to matter what the rules, they are all so good that you rarely see a DF or snookers.

[danam1]

One thing I like with WR is that you always have an option when you are in a tricky situation, you can play a DF or try to get out of a snooker in a way that you know you are going to make it difficult for your opponent should you miss. A lot of times in WR you would be silly even attempting to get out of a snooker as you can make things worse for your opponent by playing a DF even though you are giving him 2 shots, whereas in Blackball you have no option but to attempt an escape. A good tactician can control the frame in WR in a way that is not possible in Blackball due to the free shot after a foul, so WR gives an experienced player more of an advantage. Blackball is much easier to learn and play and discourages blocking pockets, you need to think carefully what your best option is if you do get 2 shots with the ability to basically do anything with your free shot but there is more pressure on the finish as 2 shots do not carry so you cannot make a mistake going for the finish like you can in WR. The nature of pool means you are pretty much always in trouble if you go for the finish and fail with 1 ball left regardless of the rules as your opponent has so many balls left to develop and play snookers etc it makes him big favourite after you miss. Our league has recently changed to Blackball so we are just starting to get used to it, I will say though that there has been very few incidents/arguments over the Blackball rules compared to the time we switched to WR many years ago, at that time several players stopped playing and our league even split in two due to the controversy over the DF's which many players still see as cheating. Going to Blackball has reunited our two leagues again. Regardless of the rules our matches seem to be taking much the same length of time so its difficult to say either rules make the game quicker although I think you have more chance of getting a marathon frame in WR.

As said team matches are like a series of final frame deciders and can often get tactical, in this situation WR can be more aggressive because players will go for the finish more often with the benefit of 2 shots carrying, whereas in Blackball you often see players take out a bad ball with their free shot then snooker again. At TV level it doesn't seem to matter what the rules, they are all so good that you rarely see a DF or snookers.

The only thing with the tv table games is that they tend to use 8 foot tables as they are at the moment on sky.
The breaks tend to spread more and the balls don't bunch up on the cushions as much giving a better chance to clear up.

[WelshPhantom]

the problem I see with WR, is that you can foul on purpose and gain an advantage yourself - that seems contrary to common sense ...

I also agree with this statement.
Much prefer Blackball.

[rdsalt]

Yes TV table at WEFP is 8' which is not quite so congested but even watching the IPA streams there is not a lot of safety regardless of the rules they are all so confident that they can clear up in most cases.

I also agree with this statement.
Much prefer Blackball.

Being called a deliberate foul doesn't help, if it was called a "tactical shot" it doesn't seem so bad . In league games I always felt a bit bad if I played a DF against a player who didn't play much or know the rules, but against a normal league player I had no issue as I knew he would do the same against me and I would fully expect him to do so, a good DF can totally change the game in your favour and in some instances is pretty much the only way you can win the frame.

How many deliberate fouls do you see in a football match? Nobody thinks anything of it, its part of the game and players are expected to do it.

[billabong]

How many deliberate fouls do you see in a football match? Nobody thinks anything of it, its part of the game and players are expected to do it.

. and yet, in a game much closer to pool for analogies, if in snooker , you don't make a good enough attempt, it's foul and a miss, and the balls go back ( optionally obv ).

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[rdsalt]

Yes, difference is in snooker both players are playing the same set of balls and its rarely an advantage to deliberately foul in snooker as your opponent also has the option to make you play again. Miss rule is mainly to make sure players make a genuine attempt to escape from a snooker or they can rack up lots of penalty points. In WR pool a DF can be huge range of shots and are mainly played because of the position of your opponents balls.

It kind of comes down to if you think of a DF as cheating or as a tactical shot. I think the main thing in pool is to try to eliminate fudging as much as possible (I think having to hit a cushion every shot is a great rule and prevents roll ups) but to still have a tactical element to it. I think Blackball makes for better TV viewing especially for non pool players as its easier to follow. I think both rules have their advantages.

[RogiBear]

My personal favourite DF is the beverage container foul, works a treat although you do get a few funny looks.