Rules help

[guernseygooner]

Don't play much pool but stepped in last night for a game (old rules). Was in the process of clearing up when an opponents ball hanging over a pocket dropped in by itself.

I was told its a foul and 2 shots to the other player. Seems a bit harsh, I would have thought as I had started my visit that the ball would just be replaced where it was and I carried on. Cant see anything on the EPA rules regarding this.

[darrenlowe79]

In bb after the ball had been sitting for over 5 seconds and then it fell in the ball would been replaced. as for old rules i am not sure
.

[DeanH]

In both World Rules and Black Ball rules the have a rule for Balls Falling Without Being Hit - and in both they state various scenarios but all for the ball being replaced and no foul, Black Ball even states that a ball being motionless for five seconds or longer where no other rules states a time
No in Old EPA rules I am sure the BFWBH was there but I cant find my old copy at the mo.
I will have a look around

_darren beat me to it

[jaffa.johnson]

The ref was correct that it is a foul and 2 shots away (way we always knew/played it at least).

It is harsh, WR it is replaced.

[DeanH]

Found a set of old rules, they do not have a specific rule for Ball not hit falling into the pocket, so I would think such a situation would be:
1. Your ball falling in without being hit - no foul
2. Opponents ball falling in wthout being hit - foul

[jaffa.johnson]

1. Your ball falling in without being hit - no foul
2. Opponents ball falling in wthout being hit - foul

Exactly how we knew it.

[guernseygooner]

Thanks all. Seems harsh and didn't go down well as it was the last frame of the night with the score between the teams 7-7

[danam1]

Obviously in WR it is replaced but in my local league it would be a foul because you had approached the table. Not fair but nonetheless a rule!

[DeanH]

Obviously in WR it is replaced but in my local league it would be a foul because you had approached the table. Not fair but nonetheless a rule!

sorry, can you explain this, do you play WR but with a modification in your league? He had not approached the table, he was at the table already in the middle of his turn and was in the middle of playing a shot already
in your league, what would happen if the opponent moves away from the table, you had not moved from your spot 10ft away from the table, and a ball on the edge drops?

[Master Blaster]

The balls don't drop by themselves, hence the penalty. Leave a ball on the edge of a pocket and it will stay there indefinitely. Only one thing should make it drop and that's external forces, wind (unlikely unless outdoors) or someone moving the table. Unfortunately, most English 8 tables are so badly made that you can easily bump the table with your hip and make all the balls move. Yes, it's an accident but it means if a ball is balanced on the pocket fall, you have to be very delicate with the table. The tables will shake after a stun shot or after a ball is hit on to a cushion. Nightmare. The rules should take into account how crap the tables are so folk aren't penalised for something that is not in their control.

[billabong]

The balls don't drop by themselves, hence the penalty. Leave a ball on the edge of a pocket and it will stay there indefinitely. Only one thing should make it drop and that's external forces, wind (unlikely unless outdoors) or someone moving the table. Unfortunately, most English 8 tables are so badly made that you can easily bump the table with your hip and make all the balls move. Yes, it's an accident but it means if a ball is balanced on the pocket fall, you have to be very delicate with the table. The tables will shake after a stun shot or after a ball is hit on to a cushion. Nightmare. The rules should take into account how crap the tables are so folk aren't penalised for something that is not in their control.

Agreed. Thank goodness we play Blackball rules.

In our pool hall ( on table 3 as least ), you can un-touch a touching ball, or cause a hanging ball to drop,
by standing on a certain area of the floor.

The floorboard has a bit of spring in it, to the extent that even someone else passing by the table
( can be 3 feet from it ) can cause the movement.

It does become a bit of a standing joke when the ref calls a touching ball,

then you do a few laps, examining the options, only to find it's no longer touching. . .

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[DeanH]

in snooker this rule is commonly known as the "vibration rule"
Most of the modern pool rules do now have replace the ball when not affected directly by the play, so the player is no longer penalised for such vibrations either because of the poor table or a train going by

[rdsalt]

Seen several balls drop even when nobody is that close to the table, I think its probably just very slight movement of the table with the floor flexing as people walk about, its harsh rule to give a foul much better that the ball is replaced.

edit - too slow typing all been covered a few posts ago.

[danam1]

sorry, can you explain this, do you play WR but with a modification in your league? He had not approached the table, he was at the table already in the middle of his turn and was in the middle of playing a shot already
in your league, what would happen if the opponent moves away from the table, you had not moved from your spot 10ft away from the table, and a ball on the edge drops?

Hi Dean,
I play in 2 different leagues mate. WR in one and "Harwich" rules in the other.
If in your scenario the ball dropped and you were standing away from the table the ball would be replaced and no foul. In the OP's post he was already at the the table so foul and two visits awarded.

[DeanH]

Hi Dean,
I play in 2 different leagues mate. WR in one and "Harwich" rules in the other.
If in your scenario the ball dropped and you were standing away from the table the ball would be replaced and no foul. In the OP's post he was already at the the table so foul and two visits awarded.

thanks for that