WR - touching ball after the break.

[DermoHiggs]

This happened in one of our competitions lately:

Player broke and potted a red but ended up touching a yellow (the actual ball potted is probably academic, though). Because he is already "hitting" the yellow, must he nominate that colour?

My opinion was that he must, but I lost the argument.

[Booters]

Surely it's still an open table? Until he then pots the next ball? Not much of an expert at WR but I thought the whole point of being having an open table is for situations like: potting a red but then end up snookered on all reds so you have the option of then potting a yellow?
Going by your argument though surely if you miss and it's my turn but I came to the table already touching your ball then that would automatically mean any shot I play is a foul? The two situations are virtually the same rules wise

[old school]

Player is on the first ball legally potted . Player breaks , pots red , leaves it touching yellow , all the player has to do is state red as his colour , play away from the yellow and hit a red and cause a ball to either a ) be potted or b ) cause another ball ( white , red or yellow ) to hit a cushion , thus making a legal shot. If no legal shot is made it is a foul , but player is still red , because of the nomination , which is mandatory. If he nominates yellow , plays away from the touching ball and fails to pot , then its open table. See Deans post for explanation of , types of foul and penalties.

[alabadi]

i thought he potted a red and then ended up touching the yellow. his next ball should be a colour after the red. so in effect he could choose the yellow and just play away from it as he was touching it. or he could nominate another colour a play away from the yellow to hit that colour.

[DeanH]

scenario: break, pot one red, cue ball touching yellow:
The breaking player continues and MUST nominate his choice of colour - after the break and one or more balls have been potted, a nomination of colour MUST be called before the next shot is made, it is a foul not to nominate.

1. The player can nominate Red and is Red regardless of what happens next, touching the yellow is now incidental and not part of the choice of colour.
1a. if the player hits a Red first and a cushion by any ball, no foul; if he pots a red, he continues, if he does not pot and does not have any ball hit the cushion, Foul, two visits.
1b. if the player misses a Red or hits another ball first, or does not hit the cushion with any ball, Foul, two visits.
But he is still Red for the frame.

2. The player can nominate Yellow, the touching yellow is deemed to have been hit and the player can play away without hitting another ball, hitting a cushion, no foul but Open table.
2a hit any colour and a cushion, no foul, open table.
2b hit any ball and pot a yellow, no foul, now yellow for the frame, play continues.

[Londonlad147]

Dean has it spot on. Although red has been potted on the break, the player can still nominate either red or yellow. If he goes red he is red regardless of what happens next, but if he nominates yellow he must pot a yellow, else the following player has an open table.

We had this debate in our league a few months ago, and a few VERY experiences players swore blind that because he was touching the yellow he had to nominate yellow else it would be an automatic foul, as he was deemed to have struck the yellow. That is incorrect.

[rdsalt]

Yes Dean has it right, player must nominate his choice of colour, if he chooses reds he is reds, if yellow he must legally pot yellow or it is an open table. The fact that the cue ball is touching the yellow makes no real difference, its just like when your opponent plays a shot and leaves the cue ball touching his colour, you are already "hitting" his colour but it's not a foul if you play away and make a legal shot.

[DermoHiggs]

Cheers lads,
You know, the first time I thought it through properly in my head was straight after I posted the question.

When I considered, that, in open play you can be touching an opponent's ball but still play your own, I realised that my assumption that day had been very wrong (because if my flawed logic was applied to open play scenario it would always be a foul - doh!).

And I've just now spotted that Booters made that very same point.

[barrywhite]

I get confused with all these rules but last time I played league I would have been able to pot the red, nominate red, and then play a red (whilst touching the yellow but not moving it with some bridging over the ball) if I can see one or if not, play off a cushion and hit a red without it or the white ball having to hit a cushion, by calling total first. So the call would have been 'red, total ref?'. lol

[Londonlad147]

I get confused with all these rules but last time I played league I would have been able to pot the red, nominate red, and then play a red (whilst touching the yellow but not moving it with some bridging over the ball) if I can see one or if not, play off a cushion and hit a red without it or the white ball having to hit a cushion, by calling total first. So the call would have been 'red, total ref?'. lol

Correct :-)

[barrywhite]

Correct :-)

'Total granted'. lol