8 Ball Pool Question.

[ADR147]

“”When a player’s cue-ball has gone “in-off” by falling into a pocket (with no attempt to prevent this happening) and the player then immediately extracts the cue-ball from within the pocket for presentation of two shots to the opponent; is this loss of frame? “”



An authoritative reply to this question would be much appreciated.

[Robert602]

I assume you're talking about EPA world rules 8 ball?

I can't really be authoritative but I can offer my experience. I played the BUSA (inter-university) competition a few months ago, which was professionally refereed and pretty strict about its application of world rules. In that, picking the white out of the pocket was a serious foul, two serious fouls being loss of frame.

[Wity]

Although picking the white out of a pocket by a player is not covered in the world rules or the old epa rules as available at: www.epa.org.uk (so far as I can see anyway) the referee must give a reason why the frame was forfit (see calling procedures) So what did the ref say?

I imagine it had something to do with the player handing the ball to his opponent as in world rules that is the role of the referee as when he does so he calls "time running" and the 2nd ref starts his stopwatch. (although clear as mud the rules say that only on a in off white from a break)

Bottom line is never take the cue ball from the pocket in a refereed match such gentlemanly conduct does not pay.

[Wity]

Rule 7b of the league which the ref applied....

If a player seeks to gain advantage by deliberately touching a moving ball
or retrieving a ball dropping into the pocket he/she shall lose the game.

Definately a Micky Mouse rule, a Micky Mouse interpretation of it by a Micky Mouse ref, who is also a player in said league.

[ADR147]

ok - so i called bob blakeborough who is the chairman of bapto who says its not against the rules but also that in fact trying to call it would be a loss of frame under rule 1 !!!

[Watford]

I would have to say I would have thought that Robert602s thinking about the serious foul would have about right.
It would be pretty harsh to award the frame for this wouldn't it!

But don't they play Blackball, BAPTO or federation rules (and they said world rules were complicated) in scotland anyway. So it might all be different!

[Watford]

My post crossed!
I wouldn't listen to those BAPTO people they think its ok to pot somebody elses ball with your own as long as they both go in! There all daft!

[Wity]

ok - so i called bob blakeborough who is the chairman of bapto who says its not against the rules but also that in fact trying to call it would be a loss of frame under rule 1 !!!

I'm confused now, if the ref called it wrong how can the other player lose the frame?

[ADR147]

there is the site we have for our league http://blairgowriepool.leaguerepublic.com/

yes you can pot both colours in one shot

[Robert602]

Ah it is BAPTO rules you're talking about then? I didn't realise they were still used in proper competitions but they do appear to be the norm in Scotland, sorry about that.

[taylor]

As stated above in WR it would be loss of frame, and in Blackball rules it is loss of frame too.

Rule 7e
Catching or preventing a ball from going in off If the cue ball is in the process of going in off and the player catches the cue ball, preventing it from going into the pocket and through the table mechanism the it is LOSS OF FRAME.

To the best of my knowledge Blackball rules have replaced BAPTO/EUKPF rules, but depends what your league plays to.
ie WR replaced Old EPA rules over 10 years ago, but majority of local leagues didnt change

[Wity]

So what do those rules say where a ball retrieval table is not being used?

Surely if the ball is in the pocket it's already off the table?

[taylor]

They dont, but in uk 8 ball pool Ive never known a table that doesnt have a mechanism, as opposed to American versions played on American style equipment where they usually stay in the pocket in a similar way to snooker

I couldve phrased that better, but hope u get my point

[taylor]

Surely if the ball is in the pocket it's already off the table?

Whilst Id agree, for the purposes of that rule it appears not .

[Robert602]

Thanks for the clarifications taylor. You say world rules has this as immediate loss of frame, but I couldn't find an explicit ruling on it from the rules published on the EPA site. There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about this one. Can I ask what rule it comes under?