Grrrrrrr! Fecking world rules!

[Mellow Yellow]

I played in our local 8 ball league last night and drew a very good player but still went out to play to win.

I went into the game confident that i was going to make it as hard as possible for him to get down and clear.

So to cut a long story short i claimed a pocket that he needed for both his last red and black and also covered the angles of his red so he couldn't get it out of that area.

Now this is where it got very frustrating for me as he just kept playing a deliberate foul and rolling up to the baulk end. and after a few visits each of me developing balls and him again playing away (I think he played away 3-4 times in a row) i lost my cool and went for a stupidly ambitious shot and ended up giving him the two shots on the black he needed by cannoning his red in.

What makes it worse is that i'm running very low on confidence at the moment and am even more annoyed as i felt i was in control up until i lost my cool.

Sorry for the rant but i need to get it off my chest! the deliberate foul rule really does suck! Does it really serve a purpose?

Grrrrrr!

[The Statman]

An interesting story. I am not up on the rules of pool (any version!) so could you briefly explain to me what the deliberate foul rule is?

[Mellow Yellow]

To put it simply, if you do not have a shot on, or for any reason for that matter, you can play away into a safe area without hitting another ball (obviously giving away 2 visits).

It is not deemed as a serious foul, nor bad sportsmanship, it is "supposed" to be accepted as an acceptable shot.

IMHO it just spoils the game - there is no skill involved in this style of play and is just a lazy, unimaginative, negative shot.

[The Statman]

Sounds like you're right!

However, I'm sure the official verdict will be that it was you who lost your cool and your foul shot that caused you to lose the frame.

Pity, though.

[dantuck_7]

I played in a pool league about 3 years ago - not world rules tho. Someone tried explaining total snookers and suchlike - thats when I started playing more snooker.

That deliberate foul sounds very bad in that situation. So even if you are not snookered, in any situation you can play away? It sounds like it was designed for some other case.

[Mellow Yellow]

I played in a pool league about 3 years ago - not world rules tho. Someone tried explaining total snookers and suchlike - thats when I started playing more snooker.

That deliberate foul sounds very bad in that situation. So even if you are not snookered, in any situation you can play away? It sounds like it was designed for some other case.

That right mate, its a poor shot to play,

and yes statman, i admit i did lose my cool and as a result lost the match, and you could say that the guy used the rules well to rattle me and break me down and it worked.

I do not see a positive effect of this style of play, my oponent was very annoyed that it had to come down to that, but hey.... it won him the game.

[Qubit]

I feel your pain. For me in situations like that keeping your cool is the critical bit, because you risk undoing all your good work to that point. As for playing away, that is one type of deliberate foul along with potting an opponents ball. I had the impression there was a rule that you cant play without touching a ball no more than 3 consecutive times, but can't find it in the world rules so im obviously mistaken.

Blackball rules are thought by some to be better (but not without issues as well - an amalgam would probably be the best).

[The Statman]

That right mate, its a poor shot to play,

and yes statman, i admit i did lose my cool and as a result lost the match, and you could say that the guy used the rules well to rattle me and break me down and it worked.

I do not see a positive effect of this style of play, my oponent was very annoyed that it had to come down to that, but hey.... it won him the game.

Oh for sure. I was not criticising you, it would have put my cool to the test!

Sounds like an unnecessary tweak to me. What would the situation have been in the old rules?

[Mellow Yellow]

free ball awarded with the foul. probably plant his ball and hopefully clear the table.

Worst case senario for him - deliberate foul = frame awarded to opponent. depending on the ref i suppose.


Looking into this further a deliberate foul was end of frame ie no intention of hitting the ball, but how can a referee tell if the player makes a genuine attempt to hit the object ball from a snooker - the simple answer was he can't therefore a rule change was the easiest option.

[dantuck_7]

Could you have suggested that the game had reached a stalemate and that you wanted a re-rack?

Maybe, there are set of circumstances for this....

[Mellow Yellow]

Could you have suggested that the game had reached a stalemate and that you wanted a re-rack?

Maybe, there are set of circumstances for this....

I suppose it is a possiblity, although both players would have to be in agreement, also i do not know what the rules are regarding a stalemate.

[craigslater]

I think if both players agree to a re-rack then the frame can be re-racked, or the referee can call a re-rack if there isnt going to be a positive outcome for one player after so many shots.

With regard to the miss rule, it is stupid, as said previous there is no skill involved whatsoever.

The rule should be abandoned, we play the old rules in our town, they used to use the world rules but to many people complained about the rules etc so they reverted back, i play county and pub team pool so im comptant with the rules but like i say the world rules should be revised, as im sure most people would agree.

[Mellow Yellow]

Taken from EPA website re stalemate

Y. Stalemate
"The referee shall declare a Stalemate if both the player and the opponent have three turns in succession where the Cue Ball fails to make contact with an Object Ball. In such a case, the frame will be replayed with the same player breaking".

I agree with you Craig, it does cause a lot of arguements, but i do prefer the newer wr's with this one exception.

I'm sure we could debate on the pro's and cons of each set of rules all day, but hey ho, i just enjoy the game full stop and will play either.

[Dan_65]

Although in this particular instance the rule caused you a concern, the world rules in general are quite straight forward. They also have the advantage of allowing play between areas and countries with a minimum of fuss and confusion. Here in Victoria Australia, all competitions have adopted WR, and it's the same in all Australian states. I'm a C grade umpire, and when you are refereeing people from other states, it allows a clear framework within which to operate. I understand there is going to be a meeting next year to alter any rules that have created problems (they have one approx. every 4 years), so if you are still livid about this rule, find out who's your local delegate affiliated to the World Eight Ball Pool Federation, and they can pass the complaint up the line.

Daniel

[Robert602]

I'm not sure I understand the situation, if he kept giving you two visits couldn't you have cleared? If your yellow over the pocket was guarded by the red and black then you could've made the plant with another yellow, or if they weren't tight enough for the plant surely you could've played the yellows in together, forcing him to leave either a pot or a free ball. Maybe I've misunderstood the position.

I must say quite like the deliberate foul rule, it adds so many possibilities to think about on any given shot. A good tactical battle really feels like a battle of wits rather than execution. It's the one thing I enjoy from pool that you just don't get in snooker.