who use english as a second language?come in

[Matan]

I second that


BTW, assorted (depending on when I first started learning):
- Swiss German (not the same as the German one)
- German
- Italian
- French
- English

basic skills (can understand/follow roughly, let's say sports on TV ):
- Spanish and some Portuguese
and written:
- Dutch and maybe Swedish

... maybe I even forgot some...

I think dutch is really easy to learn if you speak german and english

[Erwan_BZH]

I think French is much easier to learn than English - our grammar is very difficult.

Ooh Janie, come on! You're the very first person to ever say that to me. English grammar is very simple. No gender, easy and logical structures, etc. You don't have as many grammar exceptions as we have in French.
I was talking to a lady the other day, she came from Asia. And we talked about languages and she was happy to have found someone who agreed with her that English was much more easy to learn and logical than French.

Alos, you use a lot of images to describes action, which simplifies the process and is much easier to understand. On the other hand, French constructions are wery twisted sometimes and not natural.

[cantpotforshíte]

To be honest Krypton, I always thought that you were a native English peaker who had moved to Switzerland, your written English is that good.

The point that you make is true ... I've often wondered why people on here who have English as their second language often write better English than those who were born here.

I've no idea what's happening to our schools at the moment.

We do have almost fully segregated schools over here, not segregation forced by law, but just because in the big cities, ethnic minorities (or majorities) do tend to send their kids to a school where they are going to be with people of their own religion and colour. (Which is understandable)

As a result of this, I personally know two people who have lived here since they were 7 years old, who have spent all their education in a UK school, but who can't speak English well enough for me to understand. I'd assumed that they'd been in this country for a few months, not nearly all their life.

Also, add to this that school children use computers with spell checkers and grammar all done for them by the software, and also the proliferation of texting via mobile phones, text-speak on msn, facebook and myspace, and all the other similar media, and we seem to have a language that is trying to evolve faster than it possibly can.

[cantpotforshíte]

And I too always thought that English grammar was easy in relation to the grammar of it's European Neighbours.

What must be difficult for foreign speakers of English is pronunciation and spelling, as there are no strict rules. (Well, actually no rules)

For example, there are at least nine different ways of pronouncing the letter sequence 'ough' in English:

cough (rhymes with off)
plough (rhymes with cow)
hiccough (rhymes with cup)
dough (rhymes with low)
thorough (rhymes with
thought (rhymes with snore)
through (rhymes with blue)
hough (rhymes with knock)
rough (rhymes with cuff)

So my sympathies with any non-native speakers

[Krypton]

Thanks a lot for the compliments.

You're not the first one to say that - I'll try to stay modest nevertheless.


The same thing you described is happening over here - more and more people leave school not being able to write correctly. It's a shame our once highly praised school system has gone downwards.
That is a problem the politicians have to solve, not the online communities.

BUT - people write shortened things in chat, mobile phone text messages and so on, and simply forget they got more space to fill when typing e-mails, forum posts and letters. Which all really should NOT be written with a focus to 'save time and space' - there's simply no need to. It's a bad thing to do, I think, because it makes understanding more difficult and prolongs communication once you got to ask back. If you are able to do better, then DO SO.

I consider myself 'partially guilty' when it comes to shortened typing, but I as mentioned, I think it's ok in fast paced conversation via instant messaging.

Example (sms - text message):
Typing to a mate of mine,

'b@p@22.30'

means

'Let's have a beer at Paddy O'Brien's pub at half past ten in the evening.'

He usually replies just typing

'k',

which means OK of course . Fast, flexible (the P can be replaced with other pub's first letters, hehe) and not perfect yet (in fact, the 'B@' could be left out, as it's clear we're gonna have a beer or two anyway )


Contrary, I really try to explain myself well when writing in here. We got asian members, for whom learning English is still a MUCH bigger step than for the Dutch, German, Swiss, Swedish... - not yet mentioned the fact that it HELPS them learning a new language if, reading it, they can trust that most of the text they read is correct or as close to it as possible. Reading is told to be a good thing to learn a language, but how if the text you read is mostly typed in faulty?

Plus, it could always be that some forum members visit the forum once within a few days only. If they don't get the point I wanted to make immediately (due to stupid/shortened/unclear typing by myself), they'll have to ask back - and wait for another week until they got the reply they originally wanted.

I consider it polite to express myself as good as I can. Simple as that.

[Trophymad]

English grammar is very simple. No gender, easy and logical structures, etc.

And what about when to use ing and when not to is logic? I never grasped that concept and I never will! "Something you did in the past but am still doing" That's how someone explained it to me *scratches her head* I now use it by feeling, not by it's original purpose because I never got it. *sighs* Exept that, yes, english is easier to learn than German. But I'll let you know a little secret: I may be German but I don't know jack about german grammar as well as english grammar. I learnd it, speak it but till today I don't know what an "adverb" is or when to use it and when not to and why. I do it all out of feeling...

[sanman]

I hate english.
I hate having had to spend 6 hours a week learning it.
I hate the teachers who taught me english.
I hate shakespeare and the mess he made of my schooling.
I hate that I still have to use it as a communication tool in my work of choice.
I mostly hate that english cost me an A average in my final school year.

[Mr O]

I worked for 6 months in Switzerland and then 2 years in Germany. At first I was useless only being able to say the odd word here and there. But then when I twigged how to structure a basic sentence (back to front for english speakers) it became much easier.
For example, here's how to say you've been to Germany in German.-
"Habe ich schon in Deutschland gewesen". In English that translates directly as "Have I already in Germany been". Or "Wollen sie snooker spielen" (want you snooker play)
So you put the verb at the end of the sentence and bobs your uncle you can put sentences together.
Where I live Welsh is the first language, so thats what I speak most, also fluent French

[Terry Davidson]

I guess the person who started this string must have been talking about me as I seem to be the Canadian who puts in the longest posts.

However, to be fair to me I do try and avoid as much as possible the most confusing aspect of English to a foreigner, which is the contractions we normally use all the time, such as isn't, they're, it's and on and on.

My apologies to any non-English speakers for my long posts, however as most of mine are for coaching I think it is (see, did not use 'it's') necessary to be as clear as possible and sometimes this defeats being concise.

I am also sorry I do not speak any other languages at all as I have never had that opportunity, or rather never bothered to take an opportunity up. I also try and keep my spelling as accurate as possible but sometimes I go off the rails, especially when in a hurry.

Terry

[Erwan_BZH]

And what about when to use ing and when not to is logic? I never grasped that concept and I never will! "Something you did in the past but am still doing" That's how someone explained it to me *scratches her head* I now use it by feeling, not by it's original purpose because I never got it. *sighs* Exept that, yes, english is easier to learn than German. But I'll let you know a little secret: I may be German but I don't know jack about german grammar as well as english grammar. I learnd it, speak it but till today I don't know what an "adverb" is or when to use it and when not to and why. I do it all out of feeling...

Well, if I got your question properly, it depends of the timing of the action, between an action which started in the past and is now done/over [eg, I played football (this afternoon)], and an action which started in the past and still ongoing (eg, I've been playing football (all the afternoon)].

Hope it helps!

[Trophymad]

@ Erwan: thanks for the try but I guess my brain is incapable of understanding that. Perhaps if everyone just postet examples of ing yes and ing no I might some day remotly get it... Perhaps...
But again: Thanks for the try :-)

[willytan]

as a chinese,it's hard for me to read posts written in english from A to Z,especially there were some misters enjoy writing long essays on each topic.
yes,someone from canada,i exactly refer to you

For your info, you are not the only Chinese in this forum. There are a lot more Chinese here who uses English to communicate with the rest of the other members in order to share their skill & knowledge.

If you find that reading those English is a pain, log off from this UK snooker site & surf some others which is more accessible to your language standard.

I m not trying to slam you but if you were to be in some foreign country whom you know that they cant speak or understand Chinese, do you speak to them using English or continue using Chinese to communicate?
You cant expect them to learn Chinese so that they can be able to communicate with just you alone. Yes, China is expanding rapidly but it is never the only place to invest rite?

Just wanna summaries that the world does not keep going just bcos of you alone, there are alot more meaningful people somewhere else.

[shiyii]

For your info, you are not the only Chinese in this forum. There are a lot more Chinese here who uses English to communicate with the rest of the other members in order to share their skill & knowledge.

If you find that reading those English is a pain, log off from this UK snooker site & surf some others which is more accessible to your language standard.

I m not trying to slam you but if you were to be in some foreign country whom you know that they cant speak or understand Chinese, do you speak to them using English or continue using Chinese to communicate?
You cant expect them to learn Chinese so that they can be able to communicate with just you alone. Yes, China is expanding rapidly but it is never the only place to invest rite?

Just wanna summaries that the world does not keep going just bcos of you alone, there are alot more meaningful people somewhere else.

did i complain most people here cant understand chinese?
im just little bit shy for my jibberish,and it has nothing to do with my country's expand or not.learning english is the tendency in all asian counties,like your singlish,and our chinglish,i hope both of us can make progress though.
不要小题大做

[BikiniKill]

I guess the person who started this string must have been talking about me as I seem to be the Canadian who puts in the longest posts.

I assumed it was Noel getting a gentle ribbing in the original post.

As for the non-native English speakers, I think you do a spectacular job (I shudder to think what my posts would be like on a Swedish forum, for example) and I often have more trouble understanding the native English speakers! 'Text speak' does my head in.

[cantpotforshíte]

I often have more trouble understanding the native English speakers! 'Text speak' does my head in.

I couldn't agree more. It's getting to the point where you can tell the native English speakers because their English is worse than that of the overseas members.