Brexit, in or out.

[Giggity1984]

End of the day we are all immigrants, it's just how far back you go in our lineages.....

As for EU in/out?! I think I'm out, but could be swayed back to in by the time the vote comes round.

[cally]

^ yep, that's what I always say to folk that spout the immigrant bull....

So short-sighted and bigoted in views are some...

[vmax4steve]

Four out of five new jobs have been given to foreign workers, now there's a statistic to chew on. We will never get the truth out of our politicians, so each and every one of us are going to have to look around and see just what the EU has brought to our own little neck of the UK's woods.

I see 75% eastern europeans working for minimum wage in factories here in north devon, some four or five to a house, alternating beds while working shifts, taking a good percentage of their wages out of the country in order to buy property in their homeland. Most of them will take their pregnant wives and girlfriends home so that their children are born naturalised, and then come back. Many do not bother to learn our language, I work with several that I cannot converse with, their children will go to our schools not knowing any english.

Some have integrated well, shacked up with english people and want to stay here for good, some genuinely want to stay here because they feel it's a better country, but an awful lot are here for the money, and it's understandable.
If the situation was reversed and britons could earn three times as much in eastern europe then a lot of us would do the same, but that doesn't make it right. It was a deliberate act to allow these countries free movement of their citizens within the EU before their economies were equal to those outside of the former eastern block, cheap labour keeping the wages down to the absolute minimum, a boon to british management who have a history of using cheap labour rather than invest in new tooling.

Even the tory government have had to do something about it by raising the minimum wage for over 25's because of the drain on the benefits system.
Now what about trade deals outside of the EU ? now I work in a plastics factory as a machine setter, and one of our customers is Triumph, the UK motorcycle manufacturer. We make plastic parts for the new Triumph Explorer, and send them out to Triumph (Thailand) where the bikes are made and exported all over the world including the UK, a UK company exporting their goods from Thailand to the UK.
Now why couldn't Triumph have opened a factory here in north devon, they could have their pick of the north devon workforce for as little as £8 an hour, they could have had me for minimum wage, I would kill to work in a motorbike factory rather than the arsehole place I'm in now.

Now leaving the EU wouldn't stop this, but being in the EU didn't stop it either, as far as I can see it won't matter a jot. This country is already trading with all countries of the world, all the pound shops sell goods made in china, Primark sell cothes made in the far east, I have a motorbike made in Taiwan, another three made in japan, a hi fi system made in germany, the UK, japan and china, a tv made in the UK by a japanese company, yet when it came to buying a wood lathe for cuemaking I bought one from the USA and had to pay £300 import VAT on the bloody thing, hiking it's price to £1700; plus I had to buy a 1000 watt step down voltage transformer to make its US electrics work, but I got one from ebay for £60 that was made in china.
And China are allowed to dump their cheap steel in the EU undermining the UK steel industry who by EU regulation aren't allowed any government subsidies, so can't compete, and it's owned by Indians anyway, globalisation, don't you just love it !

[Shockerz]

Four out of five new jobs have been given to foreign workers, now there's a statistic to chew on. We will never get the truth out of our politicians, so each and every one of us are going to have to look around and see just what the EU has brought to our own little neck of the UK's woods.

I see 75% eastern europeans working for minimum wage in factories here in north devon, some four or five to a house, alternating beds while working shifts, taking a good percentage of their wages out of the country in order to buy property in their homeland. Most of them will take their pregnant wives and girlfriends home so that their children are born naturalised, and then come back. Many do not bother to learn our language, I work with several that I cannot converse with, their children will go to our schools not knowing any english.

Some have integrated well, shacked up with english people and want to stay here for good, some genuinely want to stay here because they feel it's a better country, but an awful lot are here for the money, and it's understandable.
If the situation was reversed and britons could earn three times as much in eastern europe then a lot of us would do the same, but that doesn't make it right. It was a deliberate act to allow these countries free movement of their citizens within the EU before their economies were equal to those outside of the former eastern block, cheap labour keeping the wages down to the absolute minimum, a boon to british management who have a history of using cheap labour rather than invest in new tooling.

Even the tory government have had to do something about it by raising the minimum wage for over 25's because of the drain on the benefits system.
Now what about trade deals outside of the EU ? now I work in a plastics factory as a machine setter, and one of our customers is Triumph, the UK motorcycle manufacturer. We make plastic parts for the new Triumph Explorer, and send them out to Triumph (Thailand) where the bikes are made and exported all over the world including the UK, a UK company exporting their goods from Thailand to the UK.
Now why couldn't Triumph have opened a factory here in north devon, they could have their pick of the north devon workforce for as little as £8 an hour, they could have had me for minimum wage, I would kill to work in a motorbike factory rather than the arsehole place I'm in now.

Now leaving the EU wouldn't stop this, but being in the EU didn't stop it either, as far as I can see it won't matter a jot. This country is already trading with all countries of the world, all the pound shops sell goods made in china, Primark sell cothes made in the far east, I have a motorbike made in Taiwan, another three made in japan, a hi fi system made in germany, the UK, japan and china, a tv made in the UK by a japanese company, yet when it came to buying a wood lathe for cuemaking I bought one from the USA and had to pay £300 import VAT on the bloody thing, hiking it's price to £1700; plus I had to buy a 1000 watt step down voltage transformer to make its US electrics work, but I got one from ebay for £60 that was made in china.
And China are allowed to dump their cheap steel in the EU undermining the UK steel industry who by EU regulation aren't allowed any government subsidies, so can't compete, and it's owned by Indians anyway, globalisation, don't you just love it !

Well apparently 1 in 4 people in the world are Chineese. I know it's not me or my wife, I don't think it Ling Chi as he likes pizza so it must be Graham......

[j6uk]

good read that vmax,
this clip looks into some of the mechanics of the union and those who have their interests in it

https://youtu.be/UTMxfAkxfQ0

[Byrom]

I thought I would fish around and ask the thoughts of some older people

[DeanH]

Triumph - after Meriden closed, for a short time the new management had a Triumph factory in Newton Abbot
used to go past it when down there

[vmax4steve]

For those of us old enough to remember what the UK was like pre EU, pre Thatcher, pre financial de-regulation.

A US tv show yeah, but the story is the same, pre Reagan, pre financial de-regulation, pre sub prime mortgage meltdown.
We used to build stuff in this country too, and were paid the wages to buy what we made. Now all we can afford is cheap stuff from China and Thailand, and that goes for cues as well so it's relevent as Thaigate showed.

Who can afford to be honest anymore ?

[ADR147]

For those of us old enough to remember what the UK was like pre EU, pre Thatcher, pre financial de-regulation.

A US tv show yeah, but the story is the same, pre Reagan, pre financial de-regulation, pre sub prime mortgage meltdown.
We used to build stuff in this country too, and were paid the wages to buy what we made. Now all we can afford is cheap stuff from China and Thailand, and that goes for cues as well so it's relevent as Thaigate showed.

Who can afford to be honest anymore ?

so you mean during the oil crisis and the 3 day working week!

[Byrom]

Could be worse guys in a way I feel for Terry - I mean we got Europe yeah but we could be attached to America like he is - can you imagine hearing those women every day?

[mikeyd100]

Remember when this used to do the rounds, being text to everyone :

Being British is about driving a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer, then travelling home, grabbing an Indian curry or a Turkish kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV.

[Terry Davidson]

Byrom...it ain't that bad. I remember how it was in the 60's and I'm damned glad I don't have to live like I did then and am really glad at the progress we've made. Yes, we have a chip on our shoulder regarding the USA because they are so big and so close and swamp our markets and entertainment but outside of Bush and Trump and of course our ex-PM who loved Bush I think we're doing fine.

[Terry Davidson]

I think the best argument for remaining in the EU is Britain cannot battle the USA, China and Russia all alone and an economic union that has as much economic power as the USA or China makes a lot of sense to me.

[itsnoteasy]

Don't worry about in and out of Europe, the TTIP agreement will screw us all.
As for immigration, It drives wages down, when you work as self employed you can work below minimum wage and this is what's happening.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ed-status.html
It's Romanians and Bulgarians now,but it was Polish when they first came over, it also gets you a national insurance number straight away and gets you around the halt in claiming benifits .

[vmax4steve]

so you mean during the oil crisis and the 3 day working week!

The three day week was a gas, we worked three 12 hour days and had four days off, only four hours less than a full week plus dole money for the other two, I was better off.
It wasn't as hard as the modern media make out, a few power cuts, remember playing pool by candle light in the local, and it only lasted a few weeks not the whole bloody decade.