Brexit, in or out.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I know a IT development worker who has worked for IBM in Slovakia, he had worked on satnavs and integrating businesses into the area codes. Basically you're in an area he'd programme businesses that are nearby into the system, like petrol stations, restaurants etc... Having done that job he came to the UK expecting similiar work but experienced the familiar glass ceiling where work required a personality test (exclusion of foreigners), he went back to Slovakia gladly realising his challenge.

Romania is an outlier country in the EU, it's predicted to be a tiger economy at least until the year 2200, it has lots of rare minerals and is a large country geographically for Europe. Big things are expected of it and at this minute in time the country is growing rapidly. You probably know this though

Lol.

......

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I know the perception of Bulgaria and Romania is that they live out of poorly built dwelling without education or hope, but this is wrong. Wages are rising fast. Adjusting for prices, Bucharest’s GDP per capita is above the EU average. Indeed, the average Bucharest resident is comfortably better off than the average resident of Manchester.

Sofia is the fastest growing city in the EU, with a wage growth of 7% per annum, it's expected to be the fastest growing city in the EU for a long time.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/bligh...ritain-forgets

Sofia residential

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bo...w=1366&bih=643

In Sofia they are also planning on several highrises (60+ floors) with an artificial lagoon in the middle, I believe it's being built by Koza a huge company building lots in Turkey and Bulgaria, already one huge project is underway in Sofia called Grand Kanyon, an impressive project. http://www.benoy.com/news/2015/09/be...a-koza-square/

http://gradat.bg/

Lol.


......

[vmax4steve]

Do you really believe businesses in the UK will suddenly pay more when they are competing with the likes of China and India who pay workers £1 a day, the world is changing.
I'm sorry you lost your job, but blaming it on immigrants is wrong, as you said you lost your job during the financial crash, there's the blame.

The world has changed, but the workers of the US have voted in Trump who has promised to change it, and our government now realise what we want as well.
Free trade is fine between countries of equal economies, but using cheap labour whether here or abroad to maximise profit can't go on as it's we who are the consumers who are supposed to be buying this stuff and now that we no longer have access to cheap credit we can't afford it anymore.

I didn't lose my job because of mass immigration, I lost my job because of the financial crash and the loss of a large contract that was dependant on cheap finance that suddenly became non existant, but mass immigration stopped me finding one for 5 years because all the local factories were using eastern european agency workers at minimum wage. I worked for two years as an agency worker in one place at minimum wage where my opposite (english bloke) on the other shift was earning £85 a week more than me because he was on the books.
They gave me a 6 month running contract when the law changed, and as soon as I stood up to the bullying lothario who was my new shift supervisor I was out the door as soon as my next six months was up.

The lithuanian and polish men took his crap with heads bowed, and several of the girls let him shag them for fear of losing their jobs, whilst I told him the next time he spoke to me like that he'd find himself flat on his back with a broken jaw.
No union, no works council, no rights, just bow your head, bend over and take it, and that's how they want it, but not me.

And if you want to talk about racism, the eastern europeans aren't so sunny when it comes to that. A mate was chatting to a gorgeous polish girl and telling her that he was raised in a rough part of town and she asked him "Is that where the niggers live", her actual words.

The electorate knew before the bullsh1t began how they were going to vote but didn't let on to the pollsters, the £350 million a week for the NHS didn't sway anyone with even a modicum of intelligence. We wanted our freedom/s back, we wanted our jobs back, we wanted britain back to how it used to be before all this liberal utopia multiculteralism crap was forced upon us. There are borders and different languages for a reason, human beings all over the globe are tribal and have their own territory that they defend from other human beings.
The indigenous peoples of the world don't simply invite other tribes onto their territory, for us to do so takes us away from a base human need to live our own life in our own culture. They defend their territory with bows and spears, we do so with guns and bombs.

I'm not against anyone coming to the UK to live, but not in the huge numbers of recent years, too many. We don't need thousands of car washers in our supermarket car parks, wash your own car you lazy buggers, and if they are to come here then integrate and live as we do, leave the religion behind, learn the language and most of all learn the truth about sex and give women the respect they deserve.

Multiculteralism is taking us back to the bad old days of christianity; it's taken us three hundred years since the age of science started to rid ourselves of this superstitious claptrap, and now we're supposed to respect it in foreignors or we're racists, what a load of bollocks.

[VillaGuy]

The world has changed, but the workers of the US have voted in Trump who has promised to change it, and our government now realise what we want as well.
Free trade is fine between countries of equal economies, but using cheap labour whether here or abroad to maximise profit can't go on as it's we who are the consumers who are supposed to be buying this stuff and now that we no longer have access to cheap credit we can't afford it anymore.

I didn't lose my job because of mass immigration, I lost my job because of the financial crash and the loss of a large contract that was dependant on cheap finance that suddenly became non existant, but mass immigration stopped me finding one for 5 years because all the local factories were using eastern european agency workers at minimum wage. I worked for two years as an agency worker in one place at minimum wage where my opposite (english bloke) on the other shift was earning £85 a week more than me because he was on the books.
They gave me a 6 month running contract when the law changed, and as soon as I stood up to the bullying lothario who was my new shift supervisor I was out the door as soon as my next six months was up.

The lithuanian and polish men took his crap with heads bowed, and several of the girls let him shag them for fear of losing their jobs, whilst I told him the next time he spoke to me like that he'd find himself flat on his back with a broken jaw.
No union, no works council, no rights, just bow your head, bend over and take it, and that's how they want it, but not me.

And if you want to talk about racism, the eastern europeans aren't so sunny when it comes to that. A mate was chatting to a gorgeous polish girl and telling her that he was raised in a rough part of town and she asked him "Is that where the niggers live", her actual words.

The electorate knew before the bullsh1t began how they were going to vote but didn't let on to the pollsters, the £350 million a week for the NHS didn't sway anyone with even a modicum of intelligence. We wanted our freedom/s back, we wanted our jobs back, we wanted britain back to how it used to be before all this liberal utopia multiculteralism crap was forced upon us. There are borders and different languages for a reason, human beings all over the globe are tribal and have their own territory that they defend from other human beings.
The indigenous peoples of the world don't simply invite other tribes onto their territory, for us to do so takes us away from a base human need to live our own life in our own culture. They defend their territory with bows and spears, we do so with guns and bombs.

I'm not against anyone coming to the UK to live, but not in the huge numbers of recent years, too many. We don't need thousands of car washers in our supermarket car parks, wash your own car you lazy buggers, and if they are to come here then integrate and live as we do, leave the religion behind, learn the language and most of all learn the truth about sex and give women the respect they deserve.

Multiculteralism is taking us back to the bad old days of christianity; it's taken us three hundred years since the age of science started to rid ourselves of this superstitious claptrap, and now we're supposed to respect it in foreignors or we're racists, what a load of bollocks.

I'll stick to your general theme....lol

[VillaGuy]

The world has changed, but the workers of the US have voted in Trump who has promised to change it, and our government now realise what we want as well.
Free trade is fine between countries of equal economies, but using cheap labour whether here or abroad to maximise profit can't go on as it's we who are the consumers who are supposed to be buying this stuff and now that we no longer have access to cheap credit we can't afford it anymore.

I didn't lose my job because of mass immigration, I lost my job because of the financial crash and the loss of a large contract that was dependant on cheap finance that suddenly became non existant, but mass immigration stopped me finding one for 5 years because all the local factories were using eastern european agency workers at minimum wage. I worked for two years as an agency worker in one place at minimum wage where my opposite (english bloke) on the other shift was earning £85 a week more than me because he was on the books.
They gave me a 6 month running contract when the law changed, and as soon as I stood up to the bullying lothario who was my new shift supervisor I was out the door as soon as my next six months was up.

The lithuanian and polish men took his crap with heads bowed, and several of the girls let him shag them for fear of losing their jobs, whilst I told him the next time he spoke to me like that he'd find himself flat on his back with a broken jaw.
No union, no works council, no rights, just bow your head, bend over and take it, and that's how they want it, but not me.

And if you want to talk about racism, the eastern europeans aren't so sunny when it comes to that. A mate was chatting to a gorgeous polish girl and telling her that he was raised in a rough part of town and she asked him "Is that where the niggers live", her actual words.

The electorate knew before the bullsh1t began how they were going to vote but didn't let on to the pollsters, the £350 million a week for the NHS didn't sway anyone with even a modicum of intelligence. We wanted our freedom/s back, we wanted our jobs back, we wanted britain back to how it used to be before all this liberal utopia multiculteralism crap was forced upon us. There are borders and different languages for a reason, human beings all over the globe are tribal and have their own territory that they defend from other human beings.
The indigenous peoples of the world don't simply invite other tribes onto their territory, for us to do so takes us away from a base human need to live our own life in our own culture. They defend their territory with bows and spears, we do so with guns and bombs.

I'm not against anyone coming to the UK to live, but not in the huge numbers of recent years, too many. We don't need thousands of car washers in our supermarket car parks, wash your own car you lazy buggers, and if they are to come here then integrate and live as we do, leave the religion behind, learn the language and most of all learn the truth about sex and give women the respect they deserve.

Multiculteralism is taking us back to the bad old days of christianity; it's taken us three hundred years since the age of science started to rid ourselves of this superstitious claptrap, and now we're supposed to respect it in foreignors or we're racists, what a load of bollocks.

What have muslims got to do with this debate? Sorry to hear of your woes but life aint going to be rosey whatever, it aint a walk in the park. What change do people want? let me guess get money for nothing, have a supermodel wife, a dream car and a boat? Well guess what, not going to happen People voted for a load of lies, that is what populism, tell the people what they want to hear and they'll vote, it's happened for years and this time like every other people think that 'change' has really happened. Well if brexit did happen in its most severe UKIP dreamt incarnation life would be more limiting, especially for people at the bottom rungs of the ladder.

[pottr]

What change do people want? let me guess get money for nothing, have a supermodel wife, a dream car and a boat?

Just need the boat and I can top myself x

[vmax4steve]

What have muslims got to do with this debate?

Are you serious !!

Thousands of them getting into the shengen area with no one to check who they are, and then free movement all the way to Calais, how come the dolts who passed this law didn't see that coming. We have problem enough with the ones already here separating themselves from the rest of society due to their dumb religion and taking up the jihadi cause for the caliphate stoked up by ISIS.
Like a former general during the troubles in northern ireland said, there are a few who do the killing at the bidding of the few who want the power, but a very large proportion of the population are sympathetic to the cause and stay silent, so it continues.

And again people didn't vote for a load of lies, they knew what they were voting for well before the ridiculous 'take back control' rhetoric started. I was laughing watching Boris Johnson and Andrea Leadsome doing the 'take back control' hand movements on the big ITV debate.

The trouble with the young generation today is that they think they're cleverer than we are just because they went to university on the back of three C grades and a D. Well I've got news for them, back when we were teenagers university was open only to the A+ elite of the working classes and the children of the rich who had a bit more intelligence than that needed to get them into Sandringham.

[VillaGuy]

Are you serious !!

Thousands of them getting into the shengen area with no one to check who they are, and then free movement all the way to Calais, how come the dolts who passed this law didn't see that coming. We have problem enough with the ones already here separating themselves from the rest of society due to their dumb religion and taking up the jihadi cause for the caliphate stoked up by ISIS.
Like a former general during the troubles in northern ireland said, there are a few who do the killing at the bidding of the few who want the power, but a very large proportion of the population are sympathetic to the cause and stay silent, so it continues.

And again people didn't vote for a load of lies, they knew what they were voting for well before the ridiculous 'take back control' rhetoric started. I was laughing watching Boris Johnson and Andrea Leadsome doing the 'take back control' hand movements on the big ITV debate.

The trouble with the young generation today is that they think they're cleverer than we are just because they went to university on the back of three C grades and a D. Well I've got news for them, back when we were teenagers university was open only to the A+ elite of the working classes and the children of the rich who had a bit more intelligence than that needed to get them into Sandringham.

What law? The rights for refugees to apply for asylum? Do you want to abolish humanitarian aid too? We aren't in the Schengen, so those granted refugee status in the Schengen zone can't come to the UK. Before the rubbish of gaining a a German, French or any other Schengen zone countries passport raises it nonsense head, they'd have to have a career, knowledge of the language, have been a good citizen and lived in those countries from anything between 5 and 10 years, at which point it can still be refused without the need of a reason. So if they fulfilled all of those commitments, are living in a country like Germany (better quality in many respects) why would they want to come to the UK? There was only ever a matter of a few thousand at the Calais camp, they didn't have a legal right to come over and they weren't in large numbers in the grand scheme of things.

So what did people vote for if it wasn't the lies of wage deflation (1% attributable to migrants), the NHS funding, the take back control........? To be more content with flag waving, sipping a cuppa from Royal tea sets, chatting about how lucky we are to not be controlled by Germany and that the 48% should treat you like a war heros.

I think you've made a rash judgement, the text that I've quoted you on just shows the naivity of your thinking, if you don't read the Daily Mail then you've picked up that Mein Kampf reasoning from something very similiar.

[ADR147]

It is the natural way of things for people who are struggling to look around them for somebody to blame.

[itsnoteasy]

It is the natural way of things for people who are struggling to look around them for somebody to blame.

It's also natural for those it doesn't affect to tell those it does they are wrong, that's why you end up with votes like this, it's a backlash of years and years of being told you are wrong immigration is good for you, stop moaning we know better, the self righteous jump up and down and shout racist, they didn't want a debate, they were right and everybody else was wrong, well the utter arrogance they showed turned and bit them on the bum, it was a vote of, if you won't listen,we will make you.

[vmax4steve]

What law? The rights for refugees to apply for asylum? Do you want to abolish humanitarian aid too? We aren't in the Schengen, so those granted refugee status in the Schengen zone can't come to the UK. Before the rubbish of gaining a a German, French or any other Schengen zone countries passport raises it nonsense head, they'd have to have a career, knowledge of the language, have been a good citizen and lived in those countries from anything between 5 and 10 years, at which point it can still be refused without the need of a reason. So if they fulfilled all of those commitments, are living in a country like Germany (better quality in many respects) why would they want to come to the UK? There was only ever a matter of a few thousand at the Calais camp, they didn't have a legal right to come over and they weren't in large numbers in the grand scheme of things.

So what did people vote for if it wasn't the lies of wage deflation (1% attributable to migrants), the NHS funding, the take back control........? To be more content with flag waving, sipping a cuppa from Royal tea sets, chatting about how lucky we are to not be controlled by Germany and that the 48% should treat you like a war heros.

I think you've made a rash judgement, the text that I've quoted you on just shows the naivity of your thinking, if you don't read the Daily Mail then you've picked up that Mein Kampf reasoning from something very similiar.

The law that states in the shengen area no passports are looked at and anyone is free to cross any border.
You have the right to apply for asylum in the first country you make it to when leaving your own, with shengen that doesn't happen because once in shengen you can travel where you like within shengen without having your identity checked.
The thousands who made it to Calais were mostly young men, economic migrants looking to come to the UK and shengen made it possible for an awful lot of them to do so in the backs of lorries and in small boats, and we have no idea where they are, who they are and individually exactly why they're here.

Only 1% of wage deflation attributable to migrants, I look around me and see 50% of the local workforce are eastern europeans gladly working minimum wage and taking it up the rectum. It might be different where you live and work, but here that's a fact, and not Mein Kampf reasoning at all.
And it's typical to throw that crap in my face.

I'm not blaming the migrants, I'm blaming Blair for signing up for total free movement before the eastern european countries economies became more equal to ours, and seeing as that decision cannot be recinded the only alternative was to vote out. 30,000 a year the UK can handle, 300,000 is just too many and that's only been happening since 2004, coincidence ? Before then economic migration between the countries of the EU was very low as the economies were very close so there was no need unless you fancied a change of culture and a better landscape.

Now just what hell do you expect from brexit when it happens ?
The UK can have the same trade deal with the EU that Canada has, access to the single market with no tariffs without free movement of people. The workers that certain countries actually need will be granted visa's, if Bulgaria need a british falconer I'm sure they'll turn to you.

[VillaGuy]

It's also natural for those it doesn't affect to tell those it does they are wrong, that's why you end up with votes like this, it's a backlash of years and years of being told you are wrong immigration is good for you, stop moaning we know better, the self righteous jump up and down and shout racist, they didn't want a debate, they were right and everybody else was wrong, well the utter arrogance they showed turned and bit them on the bum, it was a vote of, if you won't listen,we will make you.

The thing is the freedom of movement and single market does affect us, in a positive way. And we can see past the 'bloody immigrants' arguments. If they weren't here, lowering the cost of production, then the jobs wouldn't be either, in todays world the middle class has shrank unfortunately, but immigrants or not that is the case and is here to stay. Cutting off our liberties and rights to 28 countries down to one seems like shooting yourself in your foot for a load of populism tosh that frauds like Farrage etc try to use when they have no reasonable policies. It's a vote by the gullible, and at the end the poor will be even poorer, it's the poor that will struggle to get visas for freedoms abroad, it's the least qualified too, all whilst migration to the UK will still be allowed for the highly qualified foreigners who'll continue to fill the more desirable jobs making social mobility just as tough as before.

Have I used the term racist once btw? I think all nationalist flag wavers are Brexiteers, but not all Brexiteers are nationalist flag wavers at the same time, some have simply been conned into it...

[VillaGuy]

The law that states in the shengen area no passports are looked at and anyone is free to cross any border.
You have the right to apply for asylum in the first country you make it to when leaving your own, with shengen that doesn't happen because once in shengen you can travel where you like within shengen without having your identity checked.
The thousands who made it to Calais were mostly young men, economic migrants looking to come to the UK and shengen made it possible for an awful lot of them to do so in the backs of lorries and in small boats, and we have no idea where they are, who they are and individually exactly why they're here.

Only 1% of wage deflation attributable to migrants, I look around me and see 50% of the local workforce are eastern europeans gladly working minimum wage and taking it up the rectum. It might be different where you live and work, but here that's a fact, and not Mein Kampf reasoning at all.
And it's typical to throw that crap in my face.

I'm not blaming the migrants, I'm blaming Blair for signing up for total free movement before the eastern european countries economies became more equal to ours, and seeing as that decision cannot be recinded the only alternative was to vote out. 30,000 a year the UK can handle, 300,000 is just too many and that's only been happening since 2004, coincidence ? Before then economic migration between the countries of the EU was very low as the economies were very close so there was no need unless you fancied a change of culture and a better landscape.

Now just what hell do you expect from brexit when it happens ?
The UK can have the same trade deal with the EU that Canada has, access to the single market with no tariffs without free movement of people. The workers that certain countries actually need will be granted visa's, if Bulgaria need a british falconer I'm sure they'll turn to you.

You realise the UK isn't in Schengen right? That billboard picture of the refugees travelling in a long line endorsed by the leave campaign wasn't taken in Dover you know?

Let us look at the facts. Before the UK entered the EU/EEC it was the sick man of Europe, its manufacturing industry was collapsing and automotive plants struggling or becoming foreign owned, ship building ceased to exist and all the aerospace industries were being amalgamated into one and streamlined heavily, unemployment was high and value added businesses were rare as British innovation had come to a halt with outdated management. With the EU membership look at things today, a highly succesful financial centre in London, despite car companies being foreign owned they are producing lots of vehicles, the unemployment is a all time lows.... The contrat couldn't be sharper.

But instead of rejoice, celebrate and be thankful for the joint cooperation with our EU partners and multi-ethnic workforce, Brexiteers are now asking for all the benefits whilst incriminating certain of the poorest citizens within the market and acting like a spoilt brat not getting its way.

I don't believe Canada is getting single market access but a free trade deal, bypassing some of the tariffs but not all. Free trade isn't free trade but is a name for a trade deal which is below what is prescribed by the WTO, so it isn't really free at all. If the UK attempted such a deal it would most likely fail to get financial product passporting, an industry the French and Germans would like a greater piece of the action in.

Also for me the best thing about the EU is freedom of movement, the UK is too small an Island to act like we're Australia or the US on, apart from a few small mountain ranges and the flatlands of the fens, it's all pretty similiar let's be honest Variety is the spice of life

[itsnoteasy]

Freedom of movement might be great for you, but do you think the person who's had their tax credits cut, not had a pay rise for five years, had the bedroom tax imposed on them, seen their rents rocket because of demand,can only get zero hours contracts or agency work, give a flying hoot about being able to stroll around Europe having a nice time?
I don't mind Europe at all, I object to being one of only eight countries that are net givers all the rest are takers, that means the eight are paying for the rest, not fair, if you can't pay your way why should you get all the benifits? I also know uncontrolled immigration just can not work, especially over a quick time frame and not during an economic crash, the referendum was a disaster just waiting to happen, but Cameron instead of standing his ground against UKIP, preferred power to principles and caved in to keep the lunatics on the right on his side, he got what he deserved. Now as you say we may all suffer, we will just have to wait and see and keep our fingers crossed that Boris can get us a great deal, oh good grief, I'm away for a lie down .

[jonny66]

None of this will matter when we're all replaced by robots.