Brexit, in or out.

[VillaGuy]

Well they are arseholes,of the highest order, but how many? A handful at best and you use that to tar everyone with the same brush. By that thinking you agree with everything Cameron wanted, everything the bankers wanted and the big corporations as these all wanted a vote to remain, they all wanted free movement of labour, but see I'm not stupid enough to lump everyone in the same basket, folk voted for all kinds of different reasons the way they did, which ever way they did, anyone with a modicum of sense knows that, the same vote doesn't in any way mean we( on any side) agree with everything the side we chose put forward but in a yes no question you only get to chose one side. By the way I voted remain, but I fully respect every vote by everyone, my opinion or vote isn't worth any more or less than anyone else's, that's democracy for you.
There is absoloutly no way on this earth you can call the UK a racist country, not if you compare it to most others, it's ridiculous to bring it into the equation, I would love to see a league table where we stood and I reject the statement that 25% of brits are openly racist, that's one in four who are openly , in everyday life obviously discriminating against non brits in this country, I just fail to see any evidence of that at all and again if facts like this are stated there has to be evidence to back it up, so where is it?

The UK isn't as racist as some, but there are elements of racism especially amongst mainly white areas. When I first moved to Wales with few people of ethnicities I was shocked by the openly racist comments people made, in environments like shared lifts to work, the workplace etc...There are many racist people who I think don't even realise what they are saying.

But to get back on the EU debate, those that voted brexit have been made up by a significant proportion of racists or at the very least nationalists, you can't deny that. But by saying we are better than you, has meant a significant part of planet Earth can say the same back to us, we've lost freedoms of 27 diverse other countries, they've lost those freedoms over one. We're not the ones with the upperhand, they maybe shaking their heads but out of pity more than anything else.

[Big Splash!]

We shouldn't be leaving the EU anyway, we're part of Europe. We didn't walk away from the Nazis, we shouldn't be walking away from the EU when morons like Le Pen and the fascists are on the rise. We could build a Lancaster bomber in a day, a single day. We are not a nation for quitting because there are a few problems. We should be solving those problems, engaging and leading from the front, not becoming an anecdote in history as the rest of Europe forges ahead without us. We've always been bigger than the sum of our parts as a country; now the kippers say we should be smaller. Pathetic, cowardly. Giving in to brown shirts, all my days.

@INE, sorry mate, you're right, it's not 25%, it's actually 30% and rising:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ise-in-britain

If you look at the map provided, those areas that voted Brexit are exactly the same as those areas that have a large proportion of racism. Amazing coincidence isn't it?! London voted to stay has low levels of racism. The North, Midlands, SW and Wales have high levels of racism and voted to leave. AMAZING!

The penny will drop one day. Fear, hatred and racism go hand in hand.

I know other countries are even more bigoted but I don't live there, I live here. And I want the UK to be a beacon of hope against all that is small minded. Maybe I have false belief because of the fascists we've stood against before. It's rotten when you see someone and know that 1 in 3 people that person meets hates him for no good reason and doesn't even know him. It's rotten because those people are from a western 'civilised' country where everyone gets an education and was taught better by their teachers. Luckily, folk like Villaguy restore my faith. Decent human beings are a god send.

[itsnoteasy]

We shouldn't be leaving the EU anyway, we're part of Europe. We didn't walk away from the Nazis, we shouldn't be walking away from the EU when morons like Le Pen and the fascists are on the rise. We could build a Lancaster bomber in a day, a single day. We are not a nation for quitting because there are a few problems. We should be solving those problems, engaging and leading from the front, not becoming an anecdote in history as the rest of Europe forges ahead without us. We've always been bigger than the sum of our parts as a country; now the kippers say we should be smaller. Pathetic, cowardly.

@INE, sorry mate, you're right, it's not 25%, it's actually 30% and rising:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ise-in-britain

But ,but you are getting your info from the biased mainstream media that all us sheep use, so that can't be correct can it. So im sure you will agree we should discount that poll.
Look at the graph, the last date is 2013 unless I'm mistaken ,so that's long before the referendum. Why was it on the rise then? Maybe something to do with the crash and folks living standards? living standards have been proven time and time again to be the number one driving force behind the fear of immigration. If we were all well off do you think 90% of folk would be bothered who came to live here? There will always be a minority that will but that's just human nature.

[VillaGuy]

I thought it was awful for place as ethnically diverse as Birmingham to have voted leave, but then again driving on the M6 near the RAC building there was a huge billboard paid for by Farrage and Co, must have been seen by 100,000's each day. They won the vote on lies, it's not the will of the people to lose freedoms at all, the brexiters were too idiotic to see past a man standing with a pint in his hand. It's not over yet, even with hard brexit, there'll be an uprising of sensible people once that Hooray Henry generation have died out, realising the mistakes of the past generations, and that equality is a bigger force than a failed attempt at new imperialism.

[weezer]

Oh dear, the poor old brainwashed Remoaners are still so bitter and twisted about the result over 6 months ago. You lost, get over it. I know it's been said many times before but it's called DEMOCRACY. Look it up in the Dictionary!

[VillaGuy]

You lost too fella providing you're a UK citizen, what are you jubilant over? Loss of your passport rights? Enlighten me, if you have nothing to say you're the real loser, not having a reason yet voting for it anyway.

[Big Splash!]

But ,but you are getting your info from the biased mainstream media that all us sheep use, so that can't be correct can it. So im sure you will agree we should discount that poll.
Look at the graph, the last date is 2013 unless I'm mistaken ,so that's long before the referendum. Why was it on the rise then? Maybe something to do with the crash and folks living standards? living standards have been proven time and time again to be the number one driving force behind the fear of immigration. If we were all well off do you think 90% of folk would be bothered who came to live here? There will always be a minority that will but that's just human nature.

Making excuses for racism. Utterly pathetic. The source is real, the stats are real and you denied they could exist! The research sound. Some people just can't look in the mirror and accept who they are. I've more respect for those who are openly racist and honest about it, the apologisers are simply weak. That's why the UK is weak now because of weak DNA we have left. Go to your club and tell me what your mates call the black ball. Do me a favour, I'm not stupid, I've heard it in every club and not just by one person before you say it. This is a sad day for me; to hear someone I respected on TSF become a brown shirt apologist. Very sad.

Thankyou villaguy, you've done me a favour and saved me some time that would have been lost investing in the muppets.

[j6uk]

Making excuses for racism. Utterly pathetic. The source is real, the stats are real and you denied they could exist! The research sound. Some people just can't look in the mirror and accept who they are. I've more respect for those who are openly racist and honest about it, the apologisers are simply weak. That's why the UK is weak now because of weak DNA we have left.

can you explain racism?

[VillaGuy]

can you explain racism?

1[mass noun] Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior:
‘a programme to combat racism’

1.1 The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
‘theories of racism’

[itsnoteasy]

I thought it was awful for place as ethnically diverse as Birmingham to have voted leave, but then again driving on the M6 near the RAC building there was a huge billboard paid for by Farrage and Co, must have been seen by 100,000's each day. They won the vote on lies, it's not the will of the people to lose freedoms at all, the brexiters were too idiotic to see past a man standing with a pint in his hand. It's not over yet, even with hard brexit, there'll be an uprising of sensible people once that Hooray Henry generation have died out, realising the mistakes of the past generations, and that equality is a bigger force than a failed attempt at new imperialism.

So why do you think such a diverse population did vote leave? Racist or worried about their standard of living? Let's not say it was a billboard otherwise you have to say that's why folk voted remain, because they saw a billboard saying remain and let's give folk a bit more credit than that. The white British vote unless pretty unanimous ( which it wasn't)would not have been enough to sway the vote, so why do you think first second and third generation immigrants in Birmingham voted leave?

[VillaGuy]

The brexit vote wasn't racism as such but nationalism, which is very similiar, our folk deserve better treatment on these lands etc...unfortunately their thoughts forgot about globalistion and how much that is insignificant, people voted away rights for back garden living in the wider world. Either go full hog and go to communism where we are all paid the same in our own enclosed environment, but don't go half way there and let the corporate elite rule the dominion.

[VillaGuy]

So why do you think such a diverse population did vote leave? Racist or worried about their standard of living? Let's not say it was a billboard otherwise you have to say that's why folk voted remain, because they saw a billboard saying remain and let's give folk a bit more credit than that. The white British vote unless pretty unanimous ( which it wasn't)would not have been enough to sway the vote, so why do you think first second and third generation immigrants in Birmingham voted leave?

Because it was marketed to them, simple as that, 52% fell for catchy slogans basically. You can't discredit them for being so stupid without a third party influence.

I never saw a pro remain Billboard in Birmingham, not along the M6, it was one sided only, paid for by funds on the commercial billboards.

[Big Splash!]

can you explain racism?

It's tribal and back in the day of survival and clans, understandable. It's based on territory, keeping 'our' women and crops and possessions and homes. It's based on fear of 'losing'. In modern, sophisticated times, we need to avoid listening to our monkey brains, just as Ronnie has learned to do to make him a better snooker player (he isn't racist either). If we can't meet basic psychological needs, the monkey brain spreads irrational fear. That's why the poor lean to racism. The rich, public schooled like Farage have no excuse really, apart from being nasty beings. The modern world evolves fast, it's complex, it requires sophisticated analysis and understanding, not simple jingoistic ideas harking back half a century and more. We survive and prosper not by racism but by working the system we have. Protectionism, closing the borders, etc etc leads to a backwater that gets poorer and poorer. That's what happened to eastern Europe under the Soviets; it didn't work, they had little trade and little interest from investors. Unfortunately a lot of people in this country are thick and will never be able to separate themselves from their monkey brains on a daily basis. They react as children in a playground war and always will.

The biggest problem we have this century is being made completely redundant and broke by machines and computers. Capitalism is the real enemy, not other humans, always has been. That and environmental collapse. But hey, let's blame the black guy and the Europeans instead.

Let's deny 30% of us are racist, even though we have no stats to prove that and stats saying 30% are racist exist, by respected researchers.

[VillaGuy]

It's tribal and back in the day of survival and clans, understandable. It's based on territory, keeping 'our' women and crops and possessions and homes. It's based on fear of 'losing'. In modern, sophisticated times, we need to avoid listening to our monkey brains, just as Ronnie has learned to do to make him a better snooker player (he isn't racist either). If we can't meet basic psychological needs, the monkey brain spreads irrational fear. That's why the poor lean to racism. The rich, public schooled like Farage have no excuse really, apart from being nasty beings. The modern world evolves fast, it's complex, it requires sophisticated analysis and understanding, not simple jingoistic ideas harking back half a century and more. We survive and prosper not by racism but by working the system we have. Protectionism, closing the borders, etc etc leads to a backwater that gets poorer and poorer. That's what happened to eastern Europe under the Soviets; it didn't work, they had little trade and little interest from investors. Unfortunately a lot of people in this country are thick and will never be able to separate themselves from their monkey brains on a daily basis. They react as children in a playground war and always will.

The biggest problem we have this century is being made completely redundant and broke by machines and computers. Capitalism is the real enemy, not other humans, always has been. That and environmental collapse. But hey, let's blame the black guy and the Europeans instead.

You've summed up a whole subject here in a delightful way, I'd need 10,000 words to say this but you've got it spot on. It's also what the fools like farrage, Gove and co play on, the thoughtless natural responses to debate with people topics they aren't educated on.

[itsnoteasy]

Making excuses for racism. Utterly pathetic. The source is real, the stats are real and you denied they could exist! The research sound. Some people just can't look in the mirror and accept who they are. I've more respect for those who are openly racist and honest about it, the apologisers are simply weak. That's why the UK is weak now because of weak DNA we have left. Go to your club and tell me what your mates call the black ball. Do me a favour, I'm not stupid, I've heard it in every club and not just by one person before you say it. This is a sad day for me; to hear someone I respected on TSF become a brown shirt apologist. Very sad.

Thankyou villaguy, you've done me a favour and saved me some time that would have been lost investing in the muppets.

Wtf are you on about ,what my mates call the black ball, what are you on about, they call it the black ball, and if they called it anything else they wouldn't be my mates. You must live in and associate with the biggest bunch of racists in Britain, what do your mates call the black ball that has so upset you? What exactly have you heard down " the club" and more to the point what did you do about it? You're some sort of martial arts expert aren't you, well I'm not but I would punch someone square in the lips if I heard any of that pish, what did you do?
You are the one who said not to use the media for your sources, then use them, so don't start crying when you get pulled up about it.
So now you are claiming we should use the ones you like, pathetic! Do grow up Splasher you are acting like a spoiled child here fella , if you make a statement and it's questionable you will be called on it, don't get excited and stamp your feet, be a big boy and answer the questions put to you, otherwise it's pointless.
So are these statistics from 2013? Yes or no.
Was this long before the referendum? Yes or no
Please explain the spike during the crash and the Iraq war, was that anything to do with brexit ? Yes or no.
Then we can have a proper conversation, or you can carry on the way you are and the thread will probably get closed , its up to you, I'm not fussed either way , means nowt to me, it's only the Internet.