Brexit, in or out.

[vmax4steve]

Yeah, it's very chewy, but where's the proof? Here's FullFact's analysis from last year:
https://fullfact.org/economy/new-jobs-foreign-workers/

UK nationals accounted for 61% of the change in employment since last year compared to non-UK nationals. UK-born people accounted for 57% of the change compared to those born abroad.

Of the change in employment since the election period, 72% is accounted for by UK nationals (comparing to April to June 2010). By country of birth it's evenly split: UK-born people account for 52% of the rise, those born abroad account for the other 48%.

And change of employment means what exactly ?

Your link says that figures aren't available, yet what I heard on the BBC news said otherwise. Who to believe, I don't know, but as I said previously you have to go on what's happening in your own neck of the woods.
Our firm took on four new people last month, three poles and one englishman. The three poles went straight on the books, the englishman an agency worker, so has to prove himself over three months. One of the poles speaks no english at all and has to have everything interpreted for him by his wife, who has a great arse BTW, so she's allowed in

[vmax4steve]

And Obama was touted as some kind of black messiah, just another politician in my eyes.

Just watched The Sunday Politics, the chairman of the CBI was on and Andrew Neil ripped her a new one over the CBI's claim of 41% growth forecast by 2030 if the UK stayed in the EU, She conveniently forgot to add that the same source forecast 39% growth by 2030 with WTO agreements and 36% growth with no trade agreements at all.

He also mentioned the fact that there are 30,000 lobbyists for corporate businesses in Brussels, cajoling, suggesting and dare I say it, buying agreements from the EU commission to suit their own business agenda. Do you not think that these lobbyists wanted the former eastern black countries to join the EU to provide cheap labour for the UK ? I certainly do.
And the EU supreme court has forced HMRC to repay £8 billion in taxes to UK firms that they recovered from avoidance schemes, with another £8 billion to follow next year. The NHS is running at a £10 billion deficit so this sort of money would come in very handy; not that the NHS would get it as it's currently run in england by some plonker who used to work in the US health care system and has changed its finances along the same lines because it now has to run to a fixed budget, unlike the NHS in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, but it goes to show that there's plenty of money flying around, but it's mostly in the hands of the 1% who own everything.

The EU is a huge gravy train for corporate businesses, as will the the TTIP be if the UK sign up to it.

[Leo]

I find it laughable with the immigration debate when those say immigration works both ways with Brits moving and working in the EU, it's totally different.

[jonny66]

I find it laughable with the immigration debate when those say immigration works both ways with Brits moving and working in the EU, it's totally different.

Germany experienced a building boom in the 80's and 90's, offering much higher wages than you could get in the UK when it was coming out of a recession. Thousands of Brits flocked to Germany and milked that cash cow for all they could get, then pissed off home when the money dried up, but that was totally different.

[Byrom]

Germany experienced a building boom in the 80's and 90's, offering much higher wages than you could get in the UK when it was coming out of a recession. Thousands of Brits flocked to Germany and milked that cash cow for all they could get, then pissed off home when the money dried up, but that was totally different.

[cally]

That come into my head too as I was reading Johnny's post...

It was a great show at the time wasn't it.. I watched it to death, coming home a bit mashed up, no tv signal in bedroom, on with a bit of Auf wheidersehen on the vhs boxset ... lol

I might re watch it again...

[itsnoteasy]

Yeah, it's very chewy, but where's the proof? Here's FullFact's analysis from last year:
https://fullfact.org/economy/new-jobs-foreign-workers/

UK nationals accounted for 61% of the change in employment since last year compared to non-UK nationals. UK-born people accounted for 57% of the change compared to those born abroad.

Of the change in employment since the election period, 72% is accounted for by UK nationals (comparing to April to June 2010). By country of birth it's evenly split: UK-born people account for 52% of the rise, those born abroad account for the other 48%.

Those figures are huge, I take it uk nationals are people born here as well as those who have become uk citizens?
So anywhere between roughly 40-50% of change of employment went to non Brittish born people, I find that staggering.

[gavpowell]

Those figures are huge, I take it uk nationals are people born here as well as those who have become uk citizens?
So anywhere between roughly 40-50% of change of employment went to non Brittish born people, I find that staggering.

It does differentiate in the link that UK nationals are merely people born here. It also says

"31 million people are employed in the UK. 26 million were born here and 5 million abroad. 28 million are UK nationals and 3 million are foreign nationals."

[gavpowell]

And change of employment means what exactly ?

The link does explain it as what happens to existing jobs, ie. 5 of those jobs were held by Brits and are now held by others, or whatever. I'm not great with statistics, but the data thety provide seems to contradict the numbers you claimed.

I can't account for what you heard on BBC News, but would merely ask that when you make statements like that, that you at least provide some evidence as otherwise we end up with "Well I heard..."

[itsnoteasy]

It does differentiate in the link that UK nationals are merely people born here. It also says

"31 million people are employed in the UK. 26 million were born here and 5 million abroad. 28 million are UK nationals and 3 million are foreign nationals."

I make that 1 in six jobs are filled by people not born in the UK, I never thought it would be that high 16-17%, if that's official figures I wonder what the real figures are, as government numbers are always wrong lol.

[gavpowell]

I make that 1 in six jobs are filled by people not born in the UK, I never thought it would be that high 16-17%, if that's official figures I wonder what the real figures are, as government numbers are always wrong lol.

The thing is, a lot of foreign labourers will be registered as self-employed for various reasons, like it means the employer doesn't have to give them employee benefits etc.

Plus there's no indication of timescale, so it could be that the majority of these employees are people who've set up/bought into a business after years of living here and paying into the system. Very few Indian restaurants are opened by white British, I imagine.

[ADR147]

I find it laughable with the immigration debate when those say immigration works both ways with Brits moving and working in the EU, it's totally different.

yes, ours are usually old people retiring who are a drain on the local resources!

[ADR147]

Germany experienced a building boom in the 80's and 90's, offering much higher wages than you could get in the UK when it was coming out of a recession. Thousands of Brits flocked to Germany and milked that cash cow for all they could get, then pissed off home when the money dried up, but that was totally different.

had lots of mates in the building trade from newcastle who were on that grand a week tour! they would work silly hours earn 2k a week then go home for 6 months.

[jonny66]

had lots of mates in the building trade from newcastle who were on that grand a week tour! they would work silly hours earn 2k a week then go home for 6 months.

I know, I was there, but I missed the really big money. The stories I heard made auf wiedersehen pet look like playschool though.

[DeanH]

Auf Wiedersehen Pet
brilliant series, launched many a long career for the actors
Jonny66 - a friend was out there back then, earning big money, and as you say the stories he tells........