Brexit, in or out.

[j6uk]

its a tricky one
https://youtu.be/oAq1q1_swyM

[billabong]

Even if ( and it's a big if ) we understood ALL the ramifications of the vote,

the concept that one way is right, and the other wrong, is flawed imho.

Just as the truth that you can't please all the people all of the time still stands,

each person will effected differently by staying in, or leaving.



It's hard to start from an entirely neutral position and then listen to both sides of the discussion.

The spin from both sides just muddies the already murky waters even further. There's very little clear facts that both sides

will agree are a truth.



I think that nobody knows with any certainty what the 1, 2 , 5 years on, impact will be of staying, OR leaving.


Of course, none of this is helping me come to a decision though . .

[vmax4steve]

So gavpowell doesn't even play snooker, only on this forum because he speaks english

Andrew Neil is a great interviewer, and if the one being quizzed doesn't answer the question then you know he/she is hiding something.
First question last night spoke volumes, why, if it will be such a calamity to leave, are we having this referendum in the first place ? No answer other than it was in our manifesto.

I read that as it will be OK otherwise if they knew for certain that all this doom and gloom was going to happen they wouldn't risk it at all.

Get out of the EU until a future time when all countries of europe have equal economies so that cheap labour cannot be exploited and mass economic migration within the EU won't be happening. This should really be what free travel should mean through the EU, and was how it was when the original six countries, then nine started. To give dirt poor countries like Rumania the same freedom is simply the exploitation of cheap labour at the behest of the 30,000 lobbyists for corporations in Brussels.

I think j6 summed it up when he said that the UK is not a country, it's an economy, and I think we should all be looking at what this economy is doing for us personally. Forget nationalism, look around and see what being in the EU has done for you and if you like it or dislike it then vote accordingly

[Cannonball]

So gavpowell doesn't even play snooker, only on this forum because he speaks english

Andrew Neil is a great interviewer, and if the one being quizzed doesn't answer the question then you know he/she is hiding something.
First question last night spoke volumes, why, if it will be such a calamity to leave, are we having this referendum in the first place ? No answer other than it was in our manifesto.

I read that as it will be OK otherwise if they knew for certain that all this doom and gloom was going to happen they wouldn't risk it at all.

Get out of the EU until a future time when all countries of europe have equal economies so that cheap labour cannot be exploited and mass economic migration within the EU won't be happening. This should really be what free travel should mean through the EU, and was how it was when the original six countries, then nine started. To give dirt poor countries like Rumania the same freedom is simply the exploitation of cheap labour at the behest of the 30,000 lobbyists for corporations in Brussels.

I think j6 summed it up when he said that the UK is not a country, it's an economy, and I think we should all be looking at what this economy is doing for us personally. Forget nationalism, look around and see what being in the EU has done for you and if you like it or dislike it then vote accordingly

A simplistic approach. Spell out what the out of the EU economy would look like first. You don't vote to jump off a cliff, there needs to be a credible alternative.

How long will it take to negotiate a WTO deal with China and the Asian countries, N.America, Africa, etc? If the Out campaign can't give credible answers then folk are simply voting to leave in principle, not practice as the incumbent govt. would then (responsibly have to negotiate trade deals with the world and EU) and we wouldn't be able to leave the EU until all these new deals were ready to go on XX.XX.21XX or we'd face going broke with millions unemployed. It's the same as the currency question with Scotland leaving but much bigger because we only produce 60% of the food we need so trade is a HUGE issue! There needs to be a vision/outline of a credible alternative. Jumping ship is fine but you have to believe in the skipper.

Does anyone really believe that Farage/Johnson can deliver a future? I may not like Cameron/Osbourne but at least they're mildly competent. The out campaign have had ages to do the alternative plan, where is it? I'm talking a plan that someone can list here with a time-frame. And..................I'd like to see the Remain plan for tackling the issues we face from th EU; immigration (can they declare a state of national emergency and bar the gate?), CAP, bureaucracy, waste.

[jim evans]

How do you get that Cameron and obourne are competent.

[itsnoteasy]

How do you get that Cameron and obourne are competent.

Is that the competent Osbourne who's had two budgets fall to bits before the ink was dry, has missed every target he set for the ecconomy ,or the competent Cameron , who promised to get net immigration down to tens of thousands( 300,000 +last year) who promised no ifs nor buts he will stop free movement of people from the eu into Britain in his renegotiation or vote to leave.
The remain campaign can't tell you what's around the corner either, all the economists, and bankers, that tell us to remain, either never saw it coming or actually caused the mess we are in now, so I wouldn't trust any of them. Greece needs another bail out, Italy is in deep trouble, Turkey, ( while not in the eu) will be given free movement of people possibly as soon as July. It's as big a gamble with our ecconomy staying in as it is leaving. Never mind asking the leave campaign what's going to happen ,what are remain offering, more of the same, at best! And that's what folk want, very strange. Cameron has hit on what he thinks is a winning formula, don't debate anyone , becuse he's hopeless and just try to scare everyone, prime examples, Scottish referendum, don't go Scotland we need you, we are weaker without you, and you can't survive without England, skip to the general election, now it's who do these Scots think they are trying to have a say in how Britains run, sending down their democratically elected MPs to London,bloody foreigners. He's doing the same tricks now, fear, fear, fear.
I turned on the news after typing this and what do I see, John Major and Tony, the war criminal ,Blair saying a vote to leave will jeopardise the peace process in Northern Ireland, so that a war in Europe if we leave and trouble returning to Northern Ireland, fear tactic anyone?

[Terry Davidson]

Is that the competent Osbourne who's had two budgets fall to bits before the ink was dry, has missed every target he set for the ecconomy ,or the competent Cameron , who promised to get net immigration down to tens of thousands( 300,000 +last year) who promised no ifs nor buts he will stop free movement of people from the eu into Britain in his renegotiation or vote to leave.
The remain campaign can't tell you what's around the corner either, all the economists, and bankers, that tell us to remain, either never saw it coming or actually caused the mess we are in now, so I wouldn't trust any of them. Greece needs another bail out, Italy is in deep trouble, Turkey, ( while not in the eu) will be given free movement of people possibly as soon as July. It's as big a gamble with our ecconomy staying in as it is leaving. Never mind asking the leave campaign what's going to happen ,what are remain offering, more of the same, at best! And that's what folk want, very strange. Cameron has hit on what he thinks is a winning formula, don't debate anyone , becuse he's hopeless and just try to scare everyone, prime examples, Scottish referendum, don't go Scotland we need you, we are weaker without you, and you can't survive without England, skip to the general election, now it's who do these Scots think they are trying to have a say in how Britains run, sending down their democratically elected MPs to London,bloody foreigners. He's doing the same tricks now, fear, fear, fear.
I turned on the news after typing this and what do I see, John Major and Tony, the war criminal ,Blair saying a vote to leave will jeopardise the peace process in Northern Ireland, so that a war in Europe if we leave and trouble returning to Northern Ireland, fear tactic anyone?

The problem with what you have here is they are all home grown politicians and those issues have nothing to do with the EU. If you stay you will likely get some more of the same BUT at least the British reps in the EU parliament will have a say from inside. If you go it will all be from the outside looking in although of course your already incompetent politicians will have more freedom to enact more stupid laws and rules.

Politicians haven't changed since ancient Egypt and probably before.

[cally]

Imagine a Britain with camerpig and Gideon having complete say on everything, eh! ... :horror:

[itsnoteasy]

Imagine a Britain with camerpig and Gideon having complete say on everything, eh! ... :horror:

Oh aye and I'm fed up with old Jean-Claude Juncker always banging on about how much he does for the Brittish people, he's always fighting on our side for what we want, so glad I voted him in, or when I get fed up of him I can vote him out.........wait a minute!
Saying that I agree with you on our porcine preferring friend and Gideon the oik Osborne, but the English wanted them so we all have to suffer them.
Sorry not the English, England wanted them, that's unfair to English folk.

[jbean1]

how has this made it onto the forum lol! will cues be cheaper if we stay ir leave lol

[gavpowell]

So gavpowell doesn't even play snooker, only on this forum because he speaks english

Don't read between the lines, you'll miss all the words.

I promise you I don't play snooker at all - the last time I held a snooker cue was at the age of about 10, before my mate ruined my child-size snooker table by writing his name in prittstick. I keep meaning to learn to play, but I never get round to it.

I do, however, watch snooker and have done since the Hendry-White years. But that wasn't on your list!

[gavpowell]

so glad I voted him in, or when I get fed up of him I can vote him out.........wait a minute!

#
As I keep saying, that isn't even true of our own democracy is it? I live in a Tory safe seat(It has never even come close to changing hands in over a century) with an MP whose politics I find repellent. His majority is tens of thousands and the constituency is affluent farmers, so I have zero chance of getting him out if I don't like him. I didn't vote for the current government, but what can I do to get rid of them? Nothing - even in five years, my vote only makes a difference in another constituency.

At the moment, I think I'd favour staying in Europe but sorting out our internal political structure to make politicians more accountable, then start work on the EU, though that will be extremely difficult.

If the majority votes to come out, I'll be fascinated to see what happens, because we were on the bones of our arse in a totally different world back then. The Berlin Wall was a fact of life!

[mikeyd100]

how has this made it onto the forum lol! will cues be cheaper if we stay ir leave lol

At last, someone has asked the biggest question - will cues be cheaper .. haha.

By the way, this is classed as Off Topic chat so its cool.

[jbean1]

this thread it amazing! get it up on bbc news

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

this thread it amazing! get it up on bbc news

Eh? It's better than average, but the bar is pretty low to be honest.