Brexit, in or out.

[ADR147]

Sounds like him and Sean Connery are cut from the same cloth, .
I am still sticking with a ten point gap around 55-45% remain.

I think that might be about right.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

My words exactly, stripped of context, yes:

"to me, it seems sensible to pay down the debt, eliminate the deficit and balance the books so you have zero debt. To anyone who has a grasp of economics, however, this is a laughable and irresponsible idea.

Now fine, if you have a grasp of economics and disagree, I'll revise it, though the fact you think it's a single line to explain the whole thing suggests you perhaps don't.

Having googled about a bit, the view I was referring to was this, as explained by William Keegan, the Oberver's economics bod:

"It is hardly a good use of resources and economic potential if the budget is balanced when unemployment is still high and inflation is negligible"

This is echoed by this guy http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...cal-surpluses/
who is an accountant but also a graduate of business economics.

and these people http://www.pieria.co.uk/articles/osb..._very_bad_idea

If what they say is true, running a deficit is a sensible way to run a country. Personally, I've never understood why the Gold Standard isn't a perfectly good system(see ignorance of economics)

Anyone else hear the sound of furious backpedaling?

I bet Norway, with their fiscal responsibility, no debt and huge cash surpluses, are furious they didn't listen to obscure Observer economists and other dismal science water diviners, who, despite all their training and alleged expertise, spectacularly failed to spot looming financial armageddon in 07/08.

[ADR147]

Anyone else hear the sound of furious backpedaling?

I bet Norway, with their fiscal responsibility, no debt and huge cash surpluses, are furious they didn't listen to obscure Observer economists and other dismal science water diviners, who, despite all their training and alleged expertise, spectacularly failed to spot looming financial armageddon in 07/08.

People who mention Norway are like people who mention Hilter in an argument - Have you ever been to Norway? It is very pretty, but it costs half a weeks wages for a couple of beers and a sandwich The idea that Norway is some sort of oil fuelled paradise is total drivel.

[itsnoteasy]

Norway used their oil money sensibly, we didn't, that's why they run a surplus,and as ADR says it's unbelievably expensive there, I'm not one hundred percent sure but aren't they taxed at a very high rate, 50% or there abouts? I'm sure I read that a few years ago, might be different now.

[itsnoteasy]

Branson gives all the money he earns away now anyway so it matters not where he lives.

Hmm, that's a tricky one, I remember when he came out and said he was giving so many hundreds of millions of pounds away to do research on bio fuels, then it turns out he gave it to virgin bio fuels research lol, so he gave his money away to himself, big tax dodge? You decide.

[ADR147]

Hmm, that's a tricky one, I remember when he came out and said he was giving so many hundreds of millions of pounds away to do research on bio fuels, then it turns out he gave it to virgin bio fuels research lol, so he gave his money away to himself, big tax dodge? You decide.

He gave away about £3b in total - why would he bother to dodge tax, he has always said he thought the UK's tax regime was very fair.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

People who mention Norway are like people who mention Hilter in an argument - Have you ever been to Norway? It is very pretty, but it costs half a weeks wages for a couple of beers and a sandwich The idea that Norway is some sort of oil fuelled paradise is total drivel.

And people who invoke Godwin's law lose instantly.

Scotland vs Norway...hmm, tough one that. Tell me, how's your arc of prosperity getting along? Salmond and sturgeon, leading a misty-eyed nation of ginger people to the promised land of free everything...

[ADR147]

And people who invoke Godwin's law lose instantly.

Scotland vs Norway...hmm, tough one that. Tell me, how's your arc of prosperity getting along? Salmond and sturgeon, leading a misty-eyed nation of ginger people to the promised land of free everything...

I never agreed with their daft comparisons to Norway either

[itsnoteasy]

He gave away about £3b in total - why would he bother to dodge tax, he has always said he thought the UK's tax regime was very fair.

That's all his wealth, his personal wealth is estimated at about 3 billion, anyway it doesn't matter, giving money to charity is tax deductible for everyone, so I don't see why he would be any different.
On the vote, looks quite close, but estimated 83/84 % turnout, that's incredible, I thought the higher the turnout the more chance it was remain.

[gavpowell]

Anyone else hear the sound of furious backpedaling?

In what way? I have clarified "anyone with a grasp of economics" to explain I was referring to economists, but otherwise it's

Given you didn't get the figures right originally, I'm not sure why you think you need to be smug - I have cited people who live and work with this stuff every day who say surpluses are bad, deficits are good. I have no opinion on the matter because I don't understand how the economy works, but instead of being helpful and informative, you choose to be snarky.

Incidentally, there are various Nobel laureates who also think running a surplus is bad economics, so there's evidently more to it than you're suggesting.

[gavpowell]

If every country paid in to Europe and they had elected leaders and a

How can anyone seriously consider voting to go into Europe as is is - two counties have already gone bust

"Who cares what millionaires think?" he says before quoting a millionaire I know what you mean though - it's like when James Dyon preaches to Britain and yet he moved his factory to Malaysia, then got a job telling UK companies to stay onshore!

They do have elected/democratic leaders, though when did you last elect the Prime Minister?

In the case of Greece, they went bust because the Greek government had been cooking the books - I don't understand why nobody in the EU knew this until it was too late, but I presume they didn't deliberately include a country on the brink of bankruptcy. When I was in Prague about 10 years ago the guide said they were trying to build up their economy so they could enter the Euro, so presumably someone at the EU has to inspect these things?

I have no idea why Spain went bust, though, but the individual countries still run their own economies, otherwise Osborne wouldn't be able to slash everything to ribbons.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

In what way? I have clarified "anyone with a grasp of economics" to explain I was referring to economists, but otherwise it's

Given you didn't get the figures right originally, I'm not sure why you think you need to be smug - I have cited people who live and work with this stuff every day who say surpluses are bad, deficits are good. I have no opinion on the matter because I don't understand how the economy works, but instead of being helpful and informative, you choose to be snarky.

Incidentally, there are various Nobel laureates who also think running a surplus is bad economics, so there's evidently more to it than you're suggesting.

Four legs good, two legs bad. Four legs good, two legs better! A lie told often enough becomes the truth.

You (and they) are falling into the trap of sub prime-esque bubbles.

[itsnoteasy]

"Who cares what millionaires think?" he says before quoting a millionaire I know what you mean though - it's like when James Dyon preaches to Britain and yet he moved his factory to Malaysia, then got a job telling UK companies to stay onshore!

They do have elected/democratic leaders, though when did you last elect the Prime Minister?

In the case of Greece, they went bust because the Greek government had been cooking the books - I don't understand why nobody in the EU knew this until it was too late, but I presume they didn't deliberately include a country on the brink of bankruptcy. When I was in Prague about 10 years ago the guide said they were trying to build up their economy so they could enter the Euro, so presumably someone at the EU has to inspect these things?

I have no idea why Spain went bust, though, but the individual countries still run their own economies, otherwise Osborne wouldn't be able to slash everything to ribbons.

It was all a fix Gav, think it was Goldman Sachs ,what a surprise a big bank doing the dirty work, that fiddled it.
One of the reasons Greece and Spain went bust is because they were in the euro so had not much choice over interest rates, they couldn't devalue their currency, they couldn't do quantative easing like we did as all these things are set by the eu, well really Germany.
Remember our debt was higher than Greece, but we could do all the things they couldn't , plus we paid our taxes, which gave creditors more confidence they would get their money back ,where as in Spain and Greece especially ,paying tax was seen as optional.

[j6uk]

Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
"Relax, " said the night man,
"We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave! "

[itsnoteasy]

Holy chuff, it's swinging all over the place just now, it's gone from Farage conceding defeat, then changing his mind, but everyone agreeing remain has won quite a tight fight. Then Newcastle declares( expected result 60/40 remain) almost dead even. Sunderland has just declared ( expected 55-45 leave) ended up as 61-39 leave, it's all up in the air again.