Brexit, in or out.

[VillaGuy]

Maybe a failing economy is the likes of Greece? A country very much pro European despite its debts, or Ireland a country in massive debts yet now has a better financial status than the UK with significantly higher wages. These brexit folk make very little sense whatsoever, I guess we'll hear something about Germany and Adolf Hitler now for them to try and win an argument

[gavpowell]

Why should we subsidise failing European economies?

We subsidise all sorts of countries through the foreign aid budget, largely in place of bribes to secure business deals.

[DeanH]

We subsidise all sorts of countries through the foreign aid budget, largely in place of bribes to secure business deals.

yep, non-European countries, often nothing to do with membership of any organisation of any kind

[VillaGuy]

It's been a few minutes, I'm sure we'll hear about undemocratic and 'bad loser-get over it' at some point in the near future.

[itsnoteasy]

It's not just us who have realised uncontrolled movement of people is a bad idea, unfortunately because it wasn't dealt with and left to fester, the right wing stepped in and now it is challenging quite hard in a few countries in Europe, even in Germany the idea of restricting movement is gathering pace. Merkel who is normally a very astute operator ,shot herself in the foot by saying everyone was welcome and then having a million turn up in a few weeks, again too many too quickly and it has caused her problems. I honestly don't think free movement will last, we may well get kicked like a dog for being the first to break ranks but the EU will have change or not survive IMO.
Villaguy instead of being annoyed at the people who voted for brexit, you should be angry at Cameron who had no backbone to stand up to Farage and because of his lack of a spine and his complete arrogance that people would vote the way he told them, we ended up where we are, for me the blame lies squarely with him. He's the one who called UKIP a load of closet racists and lunatics, but was scared half his supporters would defect to them, what does that say about his party?

[VillaGuy]

The refugee influx has raised issues of course, and the brexit camp played on the terrorism fears with their campaign even though we're not in Schengen and the refugees can be controlled/sent back when the war has concluded. Germany, like the rest of Europe has an aging and declining natural population, women aren't having the required 2.1 children anywhere in Europe, the last time I checked anyway. This has implications on who does the less desirable work, especially in countries with good education systems the people are unwilling and not happy with the wages these jobs provide, the 1,000,000 external EU migrants in the space of a year to enter Germany were a way of helping their own demographic needs. The only reason the populations are growing at a miniscule rate over the whole of the EU and wider Europe is due to migrants, other wise we'd be facing the sort of long term decline that has taken hold of Japan and their receding population.

People shouldn't have been voting for Cameron, Faradge, Johnson, Farron or any 'celebrity' figure, democracy should be about personal and selfish interests, we're not voting for who looks friendly or charismatic if they are going to oppress or constrict us, unfortunately celebrity culture seems to be the world we live in.

Also I feel people have got some sort of entrenched views that the people are coming to the UK due to some other reason other than there are jobs easily available, when the economy changes and jobs are in shorter supply immigration will go. Do you think people are going to come over for benefits in some shoddy accomodation somewhere? I personally think they have more pride than that. Unemployment is low currently although this may be artificially affected by zero hour contracts, but that is something the UK has a power to end, yet they don't consider it at all, in fact they bring out silly stories of a few hand selected people who say it's convenient to work like that If these contracts are abolished the unemployment figures will go up no doubt, and migrants will go where the grass is greener somewhere else within the EU. There's no way free movement means unlimited numbers will come (finite population for one), there'll be a natural balance that is reached where the UK no longer becomes so desirable.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Just read this, you're crazier by the day. Battered wife syndrome, I mean what do you mean haha, someit funny going on upstairs with you don't you think. Are failing European economies the likes of Bulgaria with 3.5%gdp growth, countries like Czech Republic with the lowest unemployment in the EU? Are they failed? I suppose you'd rather the UK trades with China and India where people regularly earn less than £1,000 a year.

You've just spent the last few pages talking to yourself and are now suggest there's summat funny going on upstairs with me?

Erm, okay.

And, yes, failing economies like Bulgaria and the Czech republic, they'll do nicely. You'll be citing Greece next. Oh, you did. Full house. Congratulations. Meanwhile, China and India continue to have double digit growth rates and 2.5 BILLION people to trade with. Regardless, I'm having this discussion elsewhere, with normal people, so will leave you get on with talking to yourself in peace.

Ps you lost. Suck it up.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

The refugee influx has raised issues of course, and the brexit camp played on the terrorism fears with their campaign even though we're not in Schengen and the refugees can be controlled/sent back when the war has concluded. Germany, like the rest of Europe has an aging and declining natural population, women aren't having the required 2.1 children anywhere in Europe, the last time I checked anyway. This has implications on who does the less desirable work, especially in countries with good education systems the people are unwilling and not happy with the wages these jobs provide, the 1,000,000 external EU migrants in the space of a year to enter Germany were a way of helping their own demographic needs. The only reason the populations are growing at a miniscule rate over the whole of the EU and wider Europe is due to migrants, other wise we'd be facing the sort of long term decline that has taken hold of Japan and their receding population.

People shouldn't have been voting for Cameron, Faradge, Johnson, Farron or any 'celebrity' figure, democracy should be about personal and selfish interests, we're not voting for who looks friendly or charismatic if they are going to oppress or constrict us, unfortunately celebrity culture seems to be the world we live in.

Also I feel people have got some sort of entrenched views that the people are coming to the UK due to some other reason other than there are jobs easily available, when the economy changes and jobs are in shorter supply immigration will go. Do you think people are going to come over for benefits in some shoddy accomodation somewhere? I personally think they have more pride than that. Unemployment is low currently although this may be artificially affected by zero hour contracts, but that is something the UK has a power to end, yet they don't consider it at all, in fact they bring out silly stories of a few hand selected people who say it's convenient to work like that If these contracts are abolished the unemployment figures will go up no doubt, and migrants will go where the grass is greener somewhere else within the EU. There's no way free movement means unlimited numbers will come (finite population for one), there'll be a natural balance that is reached where the UK no longer becomes so desirable.

Are you a paid political spammer? It really is the only thing that makes sense.

[VillaGuy]

You've just spent the last few pages talking to yourself and are now suggest there's summat funny going on upstairs with me?

Erm, okay.

And, yes, failing economies like Bulgaria and the Czech republic, they'll do nicely. You'll be citing Greece next. Oh, you did. Full house. Congratulations. Meanwhile, China and India continue to have double digit growth rates and 2.5 BILLION people to trade with. Regardless, I'm having this discussion elsewhere, with normal people, so will leave you get on with talking to yourself in peace.

Ps you lost. Suck it up.

A failed economy is something like a current day Libya or Zimbabwe, how are any upper middle class to upper class economies like the ones mentioned failed? Have your discussions with like minded people, I'm sure you'll get them in agreeance with your philosophies. I guess they'll be in spots like UKIP.org or UKIP.net

And clearly you don't realise how well the Czech economy is doing, you're simply a blinkered voter thinking the economies of India and China are somehow going to lift the standards of the working class/shrinking middle classes in the UK. It's laughable, it really is.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

A failed economy is something like a current day Libya or Zimbabwe, how are any upper middle class to upper class economies like the ones mentioned failed? Have your discussions with like minded people, I'm sure you'll get them in agreeance with your philosophies. I guess they'll be in spots like UKIP.org or UKIP.net

And clearly you don't realise how well the Czech economy is doing, you're simply a blinkered voter thinking the economies of India and China are somehow going to lift the standards of the working class/shrinking middle classes in the UK. It's laughable, it really is.

Are you 12 years old?

[VillaGuy]

Are you 12 years old?

Are you wanting topless selfies?

[VillaGuy]

It's the way Brexiteers are, instead of talking about the realities and issues, they drop comments of 'are you 12 years of age' prompting similiar responses. What kind of answer is that and requires the same sort of response, stupid. They know they've actually lost themselves important positions, yet they argue for the world they haven't. @Not bothered, uninterested, power to parliament, rather be controlled, flag wavers anonymous

[gavpowell]

Meanwhile, China and India continue to have double digit growth rates and 2.5 BILLION people to trade with.

Yes, it's weird how countries with little to nothing in the way of labour laws seem to manage high employment and economic growth isn't it? I have no objection to trading with the rest of the world of course, but our political masters do seem to like pandering to huge corporations - low corporation tax rates, sweetheart deals for power plants and car factories etc.

Hardly surprising I suppose - Theresa May was a failure as Home Secretary and Cameron was never more than a public school bully, so no wonder we're being sold down the river.

[ADR147]

The next person to say , you lost snowflake. or similar gets a ban. Nothing to do with either side and everything to do with sounding like an american talking about gun control. I also find the attitude offensive, so either have something constructive and fair to say, or say nothing, telling people to 'suck it up' is not for me acceptable. You have been warned.

[ADR147]

Yes, it's weird how countries with little to nothing in the way of labour laws seem to manage high employment and economic growth isn't it? I have no objection to trading with the rest of the world of course, but our political masters do seem to like pandering to huge corporations - low corporation tax rates, sweetheart deals for power plants and car factories etc.

Hardly surprising I suppose - Theresa May was a failure as Home Secretary and Cameron was never more than a public school bully, so no wonder we're being sold down the river.

Part of our global problem is that Chinas growth is now only about 6% after having been over 10% for a long time.