Brexit, in or out.

[vmax4steve]

You seem to think that freedom of movement was a UK enforced policy at the express benefit of the UK nation. It's a two way street and in a single market it's the only way things can work harmoniously, otherwise it is essentially back door imperialism.

I'm well aware of the duplicity of british politicians sending lobbyists to Brussels to whisper proposals to the EU that wasn't in any election manifesto that can then be blamed on the EU. Even so it was open to a decision on whether to wait a while longer before signing up to total free movement. Only a few countries signed up for that in 2004 including the UK, and it was explicitly for british companies to get access to cheap foreign labour. Blair and Brown lied when they said they expected only 30,000 a year, Farage saw it coming and said so at the time. When the economies are equal then fine, and that's how it was in the EU for 50 years until the eastern block countries entered, only a minimal amount of free movement was happening.

If they're not importing cheap labour they're relocating to be able to use it, back door imperialism as you say, and you're just as guilty for wanting to use your superior british pounds to snap up a cheap property in Bulgaria at the expense of the locals.

[VillaGuy]

I'm well aware of the duplicity of british politicians sending lobbyists to Brussels to whisper proposals to the EU that wasn't in any election manifesto that can then be blamed on the EU. Even so it was open to a decision on whether to wait a while longer before signing up to total free movement. Only a few countries signed up for that in 2004 including the UK, and it was explicitly for british companies to get access to cheap foreign labour. Blair and Brown lied when they said they expected only 30,000 a year, Farage saw it coming and said so at the time. When the economies are equal then fine, and that's how it was in the EU for 50 years until the eastern block countries entered, only a minimal amount of free movement was happening.

If they're not importing cheap labour they're relocating to be able to use it, back door imperialism as you say, and you're just as guilty for wanting to use your superior british pounds to snap up a cheap property in Bulgaria at the expense of the locals.

It's hardly at the expense of the locals when the transaction puts money in their pockets is it? You forget the EU is a multinational agreement that needs to be signed off by each and every member, without freedom of movement then free trade will have to end, well it won't have to end but it will seriously deteriorate the comparative positions of the poorer countries to the richest. So what would be in it for them? They'd be stupid to allow exploitation and trade of their mineral and industrial resources if they are getting nothing in return, money and taxes would be going to the global conglomerates already set up in the more advanced nations, and having to trade on a level scale with them.

Without free movement the richer countries can marginalise the poorest and less educated members of the countries in a single market environment. Surely this is easy to understand? Yes the purpose was to be able to source work more cheaply, but then it had to be able to to be capable of competing with the likes of India and China. The UK on its own is a weak player in terms of resources available, it's a small country as are most European countries on a global scale, that is one of the main reasons for the development of the EU, but what else is the alternative? We have pooled sovereignty to keep sovereign strength. Yet economic experts have been ignored and even trivialised, the UK is stuck in a 'have your cake and eat it' mindset, a lingering shadow of its historical legacy.

[j6uk]

there will be no so called brexit until the uk is disemboweled https://youtu.be/wrwuk6NoMv8?t=39m55s

[VillaGuy]

there will be no so called brexit until the uk is disemboweled https://youtu.be/wrwuk6NoMv8?t=39m55s

Yeah it looks like Brexit will include single market access, freedom of movement with a few caveats to keep xenophobes happy, paying into the EU, so staying in the EU reality will be dressed up like a brexit win. I guess they are hoping the brexit voters are too stupid to realise the difference (no offence to the intelligent ones out there but you are in the minority) :sneakiness:

[j6uk]

Yeah it looks like Brexit will include single market access, freedom of movement with a few caveats to keep xenophobes happy, paying into the EU, so staying in the EU reality will be dressed up like a brexit win. I guess they are hoping the brexit voters are too stupid to realise the difference (no offence to the intelligent ones out there but you are in the minority) :sneakiness:

i wish you had a fuller understanding then i could respond accordingly

[VillaGuy]

i wish you had a fuller understanding then i could respond accordingly

It wasn't in line with your post, but it is inline with what my own assumptions are. In fact it's hard to assimilate an opinion from that Youtube clip you posted, in respect to EU membership at least. From the moment you linked from (near the end) the clip was about nothing in general apart from the debt the UK is in. What are the conclusions?
He's a mumbling old establishment fool, the kind of person that the CEOs of Austen, British Leyland and Rover probably were. Stuck in the past, advocating elitism and generally being left behind in the modern day

[vmax4steve]

Without free movement the richer countries can marginalise the poorest and less educated members of the countries in a single market environment. Surely this is easy to understand? Yes the purpose was to be able to source work more cheaply, but then it had to be able to to be capable of competing with the likes of India and China.

What do you think import tariffs are for ?

Trump has promised this for the US, let's wait and see if he delivers.
He has also promised friendlier relations with Russia and says that NATO is obsolete. He needs trillions of dollars to pay for his promise to rebuild US infrastucture, so if he deconstructs NATO and the military industrial complex that feeds on confrontation and fear to switch that government money to his infrastructure spending there will be a bit more peace in the world; what's the UK alternative, selling everything to the chinese.

I'm not a Trump supporter, and I watched the recent John Pilger documentary with trepidation, but the status quo as it has stood since WW2 has to end sometime, but Trump had better keep his bodyguards on their toes.

[VillaGuy]

What do you think import tariffs are for ?

Trump has promised this for the US, let's wait and see if he delivers.
He has also promised friendlier relations with Russia and says that NATO is obsolete. He needs trillions of dollars to pay for his promise to rebuild US infrastucture, so if he deconstructs NATO and the military industrial complex that feeds on confrontation and fear to switch that government money to his infrastructure spending there will be a bit more peace in the world; what's the UK alternative, selling everything to the chinese.

I'm not a Trump supporter, and I watched the recent John Pilger documentary with trepidation, but the status quo as it has stood since WW2 has to end sometime, but Trump had better keep his bodyguards on their toes.

So you want full (hard) brexit, a scenario that'll make you poorer, raise unemployment, decrease Britains voice in the world and reduce your civil liberties? What would you personally gain?

[gavpowell]

Had my first brush with the weak pound today - trying to compile quotes for a couple of computers for customers, I discovered component prices have all risen by about 10-15%. Anyone going to Asia in the near future and coming back with quite good baggage allowance?

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

You're quite right, there wasn't much point in it, well done on an accurate assessment for once :applause:
That lass wasn't exactly priviliged, her dad was a doctor but other than that she was a normal student, the point is the people in the EU aren't some sort of sinister clan like the brexit folk seem to make a play on, she just uis a person trying to make a positive difference for the unity of most of the countries on our continent...

...whilst creaming off an exceptionally comfortable lifestyle for herself, and marrying a stockbroker called Rupert.

Number one reason for Brexit? A very large reality gap. Daughter of a doctor? You fit very nicely into this reality gap. Either join the real world for a second or stop making an absolute fool of yourself.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

i wish you had a fuller understanding then i could respond accordingly

But 6th formers know it all mate! Always have!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

It wasn't in line with your post, but it is inline with what my own assumptions are. In fact it's hard to assimilate an opinion from that Youtube clip you posted, in respect to EU membership at least. From the moment you linked from (near the end) the clip was about nothing in general apart from the debt the UK is in. What are the conclusions?
He's a mumbling old establishment fool, the kind of person that the CEOs of Austen, British Leyland and Rover probably were. Stuck in the past, advocating elitism and generally being left behind in the modern day

Maybe he's got a wealth of wisdom and experience, and isn't talking naive, ideological nonsense in order to get his end away with a posh thicko?

Just a thought.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

So you want full (hard) brexit, a scenario that'll make you poorer, raise unemployment, decrease Britains voice in the world and reduce your civil liberties? What would you personally gain?

There is no such thing as hard or soft Brexit. This is a device used by a rich elite to protect their interests. Stop drinking the koolaid.

[VillaGuy]

There is no such thing as hard or soft Brexit. This is a device used by a rich elite to protect their interests. Stop drinking the koolaid.

Your're well versed in the Daily Mail propaganda machine. There are clear differences that can be chosen in the path forward post referendum, hence a separation adjective is perfectly legitimate.

[VillaGuy]

But 6th formers know it all mate! Always have!

Are you an octogenarian, someone in their 30's is hardly a sixth former :stupid: