Brexit, in or out.

[Big Splash!]

Well the corporate elite/born elite have an easy ride when 52% don't realise what's being peddled to them by the media. Freedom of press is basically rule by press. There hasn't been a single occasion on this thread where I have heard one certain benefit of Brexit, it's really disturbing their opinions are based on politics/stories rather than their own quality of lives, just qualitative (statistically) statements without real world application.

You're forgetting the chance they have to do hundreds of years of inbreeding. This is very important to the five-fingered crew and more than enough reason to shut the country!

If you believe I'm joking, just have a think about what 'they're not like us' really means.

There are many who wallow in their ignorance and are proud of it. 'I never got any qualifications, didn't do me any harm' etc.

[jrc750]

Some will talk about freedom of movement....nowt to do with this and nowt to do with me running through a crowd of brexiteer Kippers/Britain first either. In fact limiting freedoms are the sole reason behind that thought. Don't blame the EU, blame your will against freedom ****e, that'll create more terrorists than anything else talking as a white british national. With brexit and losing lberties, how you reckon it's gonna turn me or make me feel, on side? Don't make me laugh. The freedom of movement where you can move between right/left wing governements at the freedom of getting of your arse to having to live in the UK how ever the popular vote has gone. Basically being in the EU you can live somewhere that suits you best, out we're forced by flagwvavers to do as they please. Not gonna work with me, rather be a terrorist than stand by xenophobes.

I know for a fact that people with convictions as small as driving related offences can't go to work or live in Greece or Switzerland as we can now, that'll be the result of hard brexit. Don't think I'll ever be sympathetic to idiot brexiteers for taking that right from me, in truth I'll be stoked up and more dangerous driving my car around than any muslim will be in a lorry. Don't bother writing to the police, I've written to my local MP and told him this. It's ridiculous if we choose hard brexit, there's 9.2million in the UK with a criminal record for minor things that'll lose rights. Then there are the rest without needed skills losing rights. you reckon this is fair?

Have any of you been told that have suffered a driving conviction or a fight in a pub, out of brexit you don't have a chance of working in some of the strictest countries, you could never earn money in Greece or Switzerland ever aqain. In many countries they'd actually probably say no, 9.2 million brits for things they did under the influence and many years ago possibly turned down. That's what is sick about brexit, taking away rights.

I will never get ahead of the game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8yO9Dcif48

When you read him and two of the bodyguards are shot dead or him and five of the bodyguards are shot dead, that's serious, not talking about local disputes now. It's the point you know Bulgarian special forces are involveled to take over suspect businesses

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/4805-...-dead-in-sofia

There has been several this year, if you look through googleyou get the latest, it's clearly a tough place to lice even if Boyana is better than anywhere in London

Anyone wants to upset me in reality? Doubt it, I went out with the people in Sofia who to be honest you don't need to know. Settled down they reckoned I was all they need because of the way I looked. Now I wish I took that chance, but if anyone reckons is stupid I'll meet you to ask what you reckon is better.

You go out to the top clubs in Sofia all the cars are is Rolls Royce.....

One of the forum rules is "Do not reply to your own posts, All that you need to say should be put into one reply, if you feel the need to add to a post you have made then please use the edit feature"
Please stop filling the forum with your thoughts please

[vmax4steve]

The EU is nothing but a huge gravy train, the people aboard the train wanted to stay and wallow in the gravy, that's all.
I've nothing against free trade with countries of equal economies, but free trade with dirt poor nations means well paid western jobs going abroad creating a low wage service society fuelled by credit in order to buy the imported goods we once made ourselves.

This is the fact of globalisation, the other side is the mass migration of workers from dirt poor countries enabled to do so by the ridiculous free movement of people law in the EU, which has lowered the wages even further. What I voted for is an end to this, I didn't care if the people coming over had blue skin with pink spots and spoke in morse code, it would be better if they did as I can understand ...---... if they are in trouble rather than the gobbledegook and sign language I have to interpret every working day from people who have lived in the UK for over ten years but don't have enough english to say good morning to me.

Hows that for lazy, ten years and still no english, I wouldn't dream of moving abroad if I didn't learn the language.

These pseudo bohemians who call themselves europeans are the ones who have never had real jobs, straight from school with their Blairite GCSE's, straight into call centre/PR/admin/marketing/advertising jobs with their Blairite degrees, no competition from the mass migration and looking down their noses at all those who get their hands dirty for a living who have to contend with it day in day out.

Brexit as voted for by the british people is this, simply pass a vote into parliament making all EU law our own, trigger article 50 and repeal the free movement of people law, we can even continue paying our subs. Sod the single market, they can come to us if they want free trade as all the EU rules will also be ours apart from free movement, no separate negotiations needed, and we can tick off each country that does. Want free trade with us spain ? well for starters you won't get british workers just walking in and taking your jobs and your people can't just walk in and take ours, apart from that it's as it was when we were members, so yes or no ?

If it's no then you face the same tariffs you impose on us.

It really is that simple and should have been done the week after the vote.

[gavpowell]

Want free trade with us spain ? well for starters you won't get british workers just walking in and taking your jobs and your people can't just walk in and take ours, apart from that it's as it was when we were members, so yes or no ?

It really is that simple and should have been done the week after the vote.

No it's not, that's not how EU trade rules work.

[Big Splash!]

No it's not, that's not how EU trade rules work.

These morons really think we can negotiate how we want the deal. The EU cannot give the UK terms that are better than those applying to its own members, there would be revolution; so they have to avoid that. They have to give us terms that aren't as good as their members and insist that we observe and regulate according to EU legislation/directives/etc, so that the EU and UK economies are harmonised. If we don't accept this, we'll get no single mkt. We will also have to accept free movement of people. And we'll still have to cough up 5bn and get nothing back in subsidies and grants. We'll be worse off for the facade of independence though in reality, they will still pull the strings. We're gonna pay a lot of money to trade. Just like Norway. Morons live VMax really believe that tariffs on both sides is a good thing; it actually leads to a stagnant economy and less income for us; there are benefits from trade, that's why countries engage in trade. We don't grow oranges too well, so we leave it to other countries to do it for us! We sell them thing they don't make efficiently and effectively in return. Both sides benefit. The gains from trade is a rock of a theory/law in economics; no-one who isn't stupid, disagrees with it.

The UK is 8% of the EU's exports. The EU is 60% of our exports. Whose got the upper hand? Who can blink and swallow the pain of NO, mean it and not beg to renegotiate, and then walk away? The EU can. We can't. So it's gonna be free trade with the same strings we have now or it's gonna be the abyss.

Here's a fact, we will be worse off as independent UK than we would have been with Dave's negotiated deal from the EU before the vote. The stoopid little Englanders are greedy and demanded more than the rest of the club gets. So we all go down on the same ship because of their stupidity and lack of basic economic knowledge. Snooker clubs are great but there's always one troublemaker ruining the atmosphere and club; that's us that is!

If you think the EU can't say no, have a look at what happened to Canada, a country the EU did want a deal with. Just one Belgium region said no and the deal is dead. Any new UK trade deal will have to agreed by all member states, so if it's not juicy for them, just one small country or region can bury us if they wish. The EU plays by its rules, strictly, that's part of the beef we have with them. But their strickt adherence to rules will cost us a lot of goodbye pain as well.

Our only hope is that the Scottish Parliament insists that the Act of Union gives it a veto on major constitutional change, then argues this in the courts, taking it to the EU court. Slim hope but maybe the EU court can force rUK to adhere to Scotland's wishes. Aye, we hoodwinked them over indy, now it is time for their revenge to protect their interests.

[Terry Davidson]

Change is difficult for a lot of people. Problem is Britain has never had a huge influx of immigrants since 1066 or so except for some Indians, Chinese and Pakistanis. If you look at the history of the USA and Canada who were based mostly on immigrants you can see that we haven't done too badly although there have been racist problems both in the past and now even.

Overall I believe open immigration turns into a positive thing but it takes a little time which is a fact most Brixeteers don't understand or are unwilling to understand.

[Big Splash!]

The UK doesn't want to leave the EU: here's the latest survey, 54% stay, 46% leave -

https://www.indy100.com/article/brex...grexit-7499991

Regrexit!

It's clear the UK has changed its mind now the abyss is in sight. We need to re-vote this or just drop it. Even the broke Greeks know leaving would be suicide.

[Big Splash!]

Change is difficult for a lot of people. Problem is Britain has never had a huge influx of immigrants since 1066 or so except for some Indians, Chinese and Pakistanis. If you look at the history of the USA and Canada who were based mostly on immigrants you can see that we haven't done too badly although there have been racist problems both in the past and now even.

Overall I believe open immigration turns into a positive thing but it takes a little time which is a fact most Brixeteers don't understand or are unwilling to understand.

They don't possess the capacity to understand. The best of our people left these shores for other countries many decades ago. This is not a theory, geneticists have measured it. We're left with the little Englander; genetic dross with poor IQ levels. This is a scientific fact.

[j6uk]

They don't possess the capacity to understand. The best of our people left these shores for other countries many decades ago. This is not a theory, geneticists have measured it. We're left with the little Englander; genetic dross with poor IQ levels. This is a scientific fact.

i believe the best were sacrificed in ww1, then part 2 in ww2. leading to bankruptcy, dismantlement of industry, degeneration, moral decline, uncontrolled immigration.
the uk is an economy not a country

[gavpowell]

We're left with the little Englander; genetic dross with poor IQ levels. This is a scientific fact.

Please provide your data and method for that conclusion. If it's anything like "An opinion poll says..." don't bother. I have no idea how polling companies are still in business - UK election, US election, Scottish referendum, EU referendum, all wrong.

"14,000 people across 13 countries" - what an enormous sample size, about a thousand people per country!

I've come to the conclusion there's no sensible debate to be had here anymore, just zealots on either side, so I shall take my leave and stick to the other threads.

[vmax4steve]

No it's not, that's not how EU trade rules work.

Things will change because trade will continue and brexit is the instigator of that change. This isn't a new country wanting in, it's a country that's been in for 40 years with an awful lot of businesses both here and in europe needing that trade to continue. All the rules are in place and can be tweeked to suit. With the EU in the financial mess it's in, it can't afford yet more unemployment and it can't run as it does without the UK's contributions.

The EU commissionaires and ministers are puffing out their chests and getting all macho about it in public, but the EU is a gravy train for corporations. 30,000 corporate lobbyists working in Brussels with the commissionaires and ministers in their pockets, Nissan are staying in the UK and in fact are investing more so the lobbyists have 'negotiated' something already.

[VillaGuy]

Things will change because trade will continue and brexit is the instigator of that change. This isn't a new country wanting in, it's a country that's been in for 40 years with an awful lot of businesses both here and in europe needing that trade to continue. All the rules are in place and can be tweeked to suit. With the EU in the financial mess it's in, it can't afford yet more unemployment and it can't run as it does without the UK's contributions.

The EU commissionaires and ministers are puffing out their chests and getting all macho about it in public, but the EU is a gravy train for corporations. 30,000 corporate lobbyists working in Brussels with the commissionaires and ministers in their pockets, Nissan are staying in the UK and in fact are investing more so the lobbyists have 'negotiated' something already.

He's not saying trade will cease just that there'll be costs applied to the UK not being in the single market which will make the UK less competitive with respect to other countries to what it is now. The UK can't bark orders to other countries telling them we'll trade freely with your resources, nick your doctors/best qualified and not pay anything in return. I think you don't get the benefits of the EU at all do you, it's like you're politically and economically blind.

[Big Splash!]

He's not saying trade will cease just that there'll be costs applied to the UK not being in the single market which will make the UK less competitive with respect to other countries to what it is now. The UK can't bark orders to other countries telling them we'll trade freely with your resources, nick your doctors/best qualified and not pay anything in return. I think you don't get the benefits of the EU at all do you, it's like you're politically and economically blind.

India has already snubbed us on trade. We either relax immigration, something that Brexiters won't stomach or they won't increase trade with us. So we're stuffed before day 1 of the brave new world. The UK will become a backwater no one cares about. We're only 60m people, the rest of the world is 8000m people. Who do you think countries and trade blocks are gonna prioritise for trade deals, us or the EU, us or the US, us or the Asian Tigers? It's not us is it? If India aren't desperate to dance, neither will others.

Here's the rub I thought of; as an EU citizen, I'd be pressuring the EU team to agree no deal. Short-term, the EU would suffer a hiccup and flat economic growth. Long-term, they'd have wiped out us as a competitor. Remember that, we are volunteering to go into battle and long-term competition with our huge near neighbour. They have the opportunity to sink us for a half a century. If I was them, I'd do it, knowing the UK would come begging back anyway. I think they have the appetite to sink us, afterall, they've dumped TIPP and the Canada deal. They're not scared of saying no over there.

[itsnoteasy]

I bet brexiteer flagwavers are upset the new years celebrations have been taken over by attrocities in Europes largest/second city after moscow in Istanbul, going to be thinking we ruled that firework display, how on Earth do 35 killed in Istanbul ruin our headlines.

If this was my forum you would be out on your arse for that comment, utterly disgusting.

[Big Splash!]

Please provide your data and method for that conclusion. If it's anything like "An opinion poll says..." don't bother. I have no idea how polling companies are still in business - UK election, US election, Scottish referendum, EU referendum, all wrong.

"14,000 people across 13 countries" - what an enormous sample size, about a thousand people per country!

I've come to the conclusion there's no sensible debate to be had here anymore, just zealots on either side, so I shall take my leave and stick to the other threads.

I'll try and find the data. We've experienced a brain drain for over two centuries now. Aus, NZ, the US, Canada etc etc are full of those who can trace back to the UK. Our brightest often leave. The genetic base is worse as a result. There was some research done on Scotland's gene pool around the idea that the dour reputation of Scotland is deserved given the genetic outpouring of the best, ambitious and smartest to other countries. The conclusion was that the average personality type in Scotland had shifted a lot over a couple of centuries because the glass half full folk had left, leaving the dour glass half empty. When we think of Scotland the great, a centre of enlightenment and compare that with the Scots of today who care more about the old firm derbies, it does make sense, the conclusions of that study. If the UK goes down the drain, more of our best and brightest will leave because that's how it works; other countries don't want our dross, they want to improve their own skill base. Three senior doctor mates alone are in Aus; they're all Scots. Their bright kids ain't growing up here pal.

The converse argument is that an independent Britain will be free to import talent from abroad, as we wish to choose, not just low skill, cheap labour from Europe. But we all know that this is fantasy made by UKIP who will be the first to protest if we bring in folk from the sub-continent or Asia because their voters are racist by nature and 'Asians are worse than Poles' in their view. Who will want to emigrate to a failing economy anyway!?