Brexit, in or out.

[ADR147]

They're trying to starve disabled people, they're not even pond life, i won't post anything like that again but i make no apology for it

This post has been removed by me - I don't care what anybodies political views are, but wishing a bombing on people - grow up - If another similar post appears it will be an instant life ban for whomsoever is so stupid.

[VillaGuy]

Oh dear, the dream of international trade is just a dream. Watch as the US slaps a 220% tariff on Bombardier plus another 80% for goodwill. It's like a comedy act, then the UK's trade unions actually ask the EU for help in negotiation. You hear some camps calling for a global Britain, others asking for greater national protection, all from the Brexit camp. They're deluded as the uk on its own is soon to be the world's 10th largest economy, PPP France is now larger, same with Indonesia, India and Russia, yet the dads army box set fans all think everything is rosey. 10th largest economy sounds ok, but per capita earnings have us as less than the eu average, so below the current median, yet as we wave goodbye to our rights we'll have no option but languish in 'what might have been'

[vmax]

It's been a while and a very emotive subject to say the least but the last two years has only strengthened my view that politicians don't work for the electorate, they're either lining their own pockets or forcing their own ideology.

I think brexit isn't going to happen, the negotiations of the last two years has been nothing but a sham, two brexit secretaries have resigned as a deal that appeased no one was made behind their backs to ensure parliament threw it out and the UK remained either by another referendum or by default and delay.

Over 280 mp's whose constituents voted leave voted remain, that's what the leave voters have been up against, representatives in parliament who actively work against them, so much for democracy. They were told what to do and refuse to do it.

Another two years of this farce is facing us during the transition period, every bloody day it's brexit, brexit, brexit and no further forward with scare mongering left right and centre and deliberate confusion to sway the second referendum in favour of remain.

I'm tired of being told that the economy will suffer, if so good, growth has to stop to save the planet, human industry has to reach a status quo and deal with the waste which is a whole new industry. Globalisation has done nothing but exploite resources and labour in the third world, put 25% of the developed world into poverty as well as poison the planet to whole new depths.
It's time to stop this capitalist collaboration and clean up the planet.

[Terry Davidson]

Yes, very emotive indeed. The pound will be going down, Elizabeth May is in hot water and today it looks like a hard exit with no agreements in place for free trade. I still believe Brexit is a bad idea but only because we need a third or fourth large trading block to combat US and NAFTA/China/Russia economic blackmail and the UK cannot go it alone although Brexiteers believe they can, which is impossible in our world economy today.

[DeanH]

psst - Terry, it is Theresa May

:wink:

[blahblah01]

And not Teresa either :wink:

[vmax]

Yes, very emotive indeed. The pound will be going down, Elizabeth May is in hot water and today it looks like a hard exit with no agreements in place for free trade. I still believe Brexit is a bad idea but only because we need a third or fourth large trading block to combat US and NAFTA/China/Russia economic blackmail and the UK cannot go it alone although Brexiteers believe they can, which is impossible in our world economy today.

Problem is Terry that the EU will not give the UK a free trade deal the same as the CETA agreement it has with canada. I know it took seven years to negotiate that one but the UK already abide by all the EU rules and regs so all it really needs is a yes.
The CETA agreement means visa free travel between the the EU and canada for business and tourism, but not free movement so you won't be inundated with eastern european cheap labour as we have, which is the crux at the heart of brexit for most of those who voted leave, myself included.

Tony Blair needs to be arrested, tried and convicted, last fag, up against the wall bop bop to quote Wolfie Smith.

[DeanH]

And not Teresa either :wink:

LOL I know :blush:, I quickly checked and changed it
I am not into politicians at the best of times, and these are definitely not "best of times"

[Cue crafty]

Tony Blair needs to be arrested, tried and convicted, last fag, up against the wall bop bop to quote Wolfie Smith.

Power to the people Foxie (said in old dear voice)

Jokes aside, if this "ever" moves forward, wood workers, leather workers, crafts people in general should prosper humbly in this new (old ) world.

[Terry Davidson]

My bad, old Teresa doesn't get much TV coverage over here.

One for vmax...I have read that the UK has always had control over its own immigration policy and although you do have a similar illegal immigration problem like the USA although I doubt it's as bad. I used the UK policy to get a resident's visa for the UK as my grandmother was born in England. I also believe all the Inidans and Pakistanis who have emigrated to UK were all legal and (to my mind) you would have any problems with lower paid immigrants if management of British companies didn't hire them in the first place. It may be that there's a labour shortage in some skills since the British workers won't do those type of jobs. It's similar in the States for fruitpickers and farm labourers.

My own take is why is the UK entitled to a free trade deal? I still think the UK is going to suffer by trying to go it independently rather than as part of a larger trading group.

[vmax]

There can be more controls over free movement within the EU but Tony Blair in his infinite wisdom was the only one who signed up for total free movement from any EU country no matter what their economic status. This meant that the recent members from eastern europe, whose average wage was about 1/4 of the UK minimum wage, had free movement only to the UK. The other EU states decided to defer free movement from these countries until their economies rose to a level closer to the other EU member states.
British employment agencies set up offices in eastern european countries to recruit people for UK companies and the low wage areas in the UK were inundated with low skilled migrants from poland , lithuania, estonia etc who were prepared to work for the minimum wage with no workers rights. The UK workers had to put up with this or lose their jobs as there was always someone from eastern europe who could step in.

This decision by Blair has also driven up people trafficking as anyone can simply walk in to the UK with an EU passport, no job to go to, nowhere to live it doesn't matter and now there's a real problem with slave labour and women and young girls trafficked into the sex trade.
Previous to this decision by Blair it was OK in the EU, previous to this decision by the EU and NATO to allow the former eastern block countries membership simply to put pressure on Russia it was relatively peaceful in the EU. Now Russia feel surrounded and have acted accordingly by annexing Crimea and funding pro russian militia in the russian speaking eastern Ukraine.

The EU countries in the shengen area have a problem that once an illegal migrant gains access to that area there is no need to show a passport and they can come all the way to Calais without being challenged and from there they are forcing open UK bound lorries and taking small boats across the channel to reach the UK illegally. These people are from the middle east and africa mainly, plead poverty and seek asylum yet can afford to pay traffickers thousands for passage to europe on rickety boats.

Blair seeks to look like a neo liberal socialist but is in fact in the pocket of the capitalists, his decisions on Irag, Afghanistan and Palestine along with wholesale arms sales makes him the UK's Richard Nixon. He should be arrested and charged with corruption and war crimes.
The british labour party under Corbyn have returned, rather reluctantly for some, to a truer socialism, but even though Corbyn is against the EU as they do not allow state intervention in industry, he's afraid to back a clean brexit for fear of splitting his party the same as the conservatives.

We, the people who have been affected adversley by this free movement wanted out, we didn't vote for a half in half out deal, we voted out and I haven't met anyone who was swayed by the brexit rhetoric on the leave campaign, their minds were already made up simply by looking around them and seeing how total free movement had affected their lives.
When the UK joined in '74 the EU was known as the 'common market' and was simply all about free trade, it's changed now with the euro politicians seeking to build an EU superstate with it's own currency and military, that's a utopian ideal based on preventing the wars between the european nations in the past but it has stirred up Russia who see it as a threat.

[mattyshinobi22]

There can be more controls over free movement within the EU but Tony Blair in his infinite wisdom was the only one who signed up for total free movement from any EU country no matter what their economic status. This meant that the recent members from eastern europe, whose average wage was about 1/4 of the UK minimum wage, had free movement only to the UK. The other EU states decided to defer free movement from these countries until their economies rose to a level closer to the other EU member states.
British employment agencies set up offices in eastern european countries to recruit people for UK companies and the low wage areas in the UK were inundated with low skilled migrants from poland , lithuania, estonia etc who were prepared to work for the minimum wage with no workers rights. The UK workers had to put up with this or lose their jobs as there was always someone from eastern europe who could step in.

This decision by Blair has also driven up people trafficking as anyone can simply walk in to the UK with an EU passport, no job to go to, nowhere to live it doesn't matter and now there's a real problem with slave labour and women and young girls trafficked into the sex trade.
Previous to this decision by Blair it was OK in the EU, previous to this decision by the EU and NATO to allow the former eastern block countries membership simply to put pressure on Russia it was relatively peaceful in the EU. Now Russia feel surrounded and have acted accordingly by annexing Crimea and funding pro russian militia in the russian speaking eastern Ukraine.

The EU countries in the shengen area have a problem that once an illegal migrant gains access to that area there is no need to show a passport and they can come all the way to Calais without being challenged and from there they are forcing open UK bound lorries and taking small boats across the channel to reach the UK illegally. These people are from the middle east and africa mainly, plead poverty and seek asylum yet can afford to pay traffickers thousands for passage to europe on rickety boats.

Blair seeks to look like a neo liberal socialist but is in fact in the pocket of the capitalists, his decisions on Irag, Afghanistan and Palestine along with wholesale arms sales makes him the UK's Richard Nixon. He should be arrested and charged with corruption and war crimes.
The british labour party under Corbyn have returned, rather reluctantly for some, to a truer socialism, but even though Corbyn is against the EU as they do not allow state intervention in industry, he's afraid to back a clean brexit for fear of splitting his party the same as the conservatives.

We, the people who have been affected adversley by this free movement wanted out, we didn't vote for a half in half out deal, we voted out and I haven't met anyone who was swayed by the brexit rhetoric on the leave campaign, their minds were already made up simply by looking around them and seeing how total free movement had affected their lives.
When the UK joined in '74 the EU was known as the 'common market' and was simply all about free trade, it's changed now with the euro politicians seeking to build an EU superstate with it's own currency and military, that's a utopian ideal based on preventing the wars between the european nations in the past but it has stirred up Russia who see it as a threat.

Excellent mate.... agree on all points.

[blahblah01]

Is CETA Free Trade, or just less than WTO rates?

[Terry Davidson]

Canada does not have free trade with the EU although we don't need visas to visit any EU country. I still believe the UK will be much worse off outside of the EU rather than as part of it. If Tony Blair did that then he must have been the PM and therefore elected so now you're using the same argument as the leavers say about Brexit. The vote is over so live with it.

However, according to the news I get here the majority of UK voters now wish to remain.

[vmax]

Canada does not have free trade with the EU although we don't need visas to visit any EU country. I still believe the UK will be much worse off outside of the EU rather than as part of it. If Tony Blair did that then he must have been the PM and therefore elected so now you're using the same argument as the leavers say about Brexit. The vote is over so live with it.

However, according to the news I get here the majority of UK voters now wish to remain.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45633592

Blair wasn't elected on a policy mandate for total free movement, this is something he agreed to himself once he got in, and the majority of his party were then also 'new labour' neo liberal professional politicians, loved everyone, so of course weren't 'racist' like the rest of us so they went along with it.
Like all politicians Blair simply spouts rhetoric with no clear cut policies, this 'we need to do something about *********' and 'lessons need to be learned' and everyone of course agrees but sod all in the manifesto about exactly what is going to be done so once they get in it's a free for all of who can line their pockets the most.

According to the news in 2016 the leave campaign had no chance of victory, the populate now is fed up with the amount of time it's taken for the UK government to clarify that the EU will not give a good deal, that was bleedin' obvious from the start, and the deal agreed by May pleases neither leavers or remainers so it's dead in the water and she knows it.
Two years ago the UK government triggered article 50 and the leave process began, two years to sort a trade deal with an organisation whose rules the UK abided by for 40 years were voted into UK law immediately, that was a sign of the things to come, the transition period sealed it for me.
The government have no intention of leaving the EU, despite being told by the electorate what was wanted, they decide that they know best, have ramped up the scare stories about crashing out and May has gone behind the backs of two brexit secretaries and come up with this sham of a deal that will change nothing.

Democracy my arse, the gravy train will call at the next station.