ENGLAND v CROATIA

[berolina]

Oh, that's too sad...whom will Portugal now have to beat at penalties?

[hegeland]

Of course I have spoken to many Englishmen, in fact I even know a few.

But for as long as I've been reading English papers, which is the last few years, they tend to put way too much in the hands of the manager. The manager of a national team has in 9 cases out of 10 very little impact on the team's results.

Under Sven's management England got to the quarter-finals in three straight championships. Judging by the form the English national team has shown during the last 10 years, that was, if anything, an overachievement.

The sacking of Steve McLaren will in itself have very little or no impact on the level of quality on which the team regularly performs.

[PaulTheSoave]

Well, I am suffering from a small Flu, but could not resist to comment on this one. The manager is of lesser importance than some have written here. Seems the standard procedure in England for the last 20 years to pound all on the manager. The problem in English football it is overwhelmed with foreign influx, there is only a handful of english internationaltop players in my opinion. Rooney, Terry, Lampard and thats it! Because of the influx young english talent hardly develops and is shown by the selection of mediocre players from mediocre teams. How many English internationals have been selected from Chelsea, Manu and Arsenal, being the topteams in the PL? Think there lies the answer.

Moreover, Can anyone name an english international top player in any other European Leauge? Can only recall Hargreaves with Bayern who has gone back to the PL.

Holland qualified because our top players are settled in different leagues where they play on the highest level. Ruud being topscorer in Madrid again. Van Persie at Arsenal, Van der Vaart at Hamburg, Robben and Sneyder at Madrid and Van der Sar at Manu. Not that we are a topteam, far from it. We go out probably first or second round as our play has fallen to a boring and atrocious standard (thanks to the coach!)

[berolina]

Well, I am suffering from a small Flu, but could not resist to comment on this one. The manager is of lesser importance than some have written here. Seems the standard procedure in England for the last 20 years to pound all on the manager. The problem in English football it is overwhelmed with foreign influx, there is only a handful of english internationaltop players in my opinion. Rooney, Terry, Lampard and thats it! Because of the influx young english talent hardly develops and is shown by the selection of mediocre players from mediocre teams. How many English internationals have been selected from Chelsea, Manu and Arsenal, being the topteams in the PL? Think there lies the answer. ...

In addition, I think England hasn't changed their style of play much over the years, whereas every other team plays a more modern football. That makes England's play more predictable...and changing the keeper for such an important game also wasn't very wise

[PaulTheSoave]

I agree on this. I always asked myself why The England team cannot play like the style of Manu, Chelsea or Arsenal. The only answer can be, they are lacking quality players to adapt to that style.

ps. Germany did a trick again. By not winning against Wales, not being in the top group, evading the bigger teams. Always down to nasty tricks

(Remember the draw for the world cup with the heated balls, Matthaeus? )

In addition, I think England hasn't changed their style of play much over the years, whereas every other team plays a more modern football. That makes England's play more predictable...and changing the keeper for such an important game also wasn't very wise

[MrRottweiler]

The manager can't be completely to blame. The players on the pitch must take some responsibility for losing.

[Wity]

The problem really lies at the grass roots level. Kids nowadays are far too soft you never see a pitch being used if it's raining let alone snowing. Thats if you can find a pitch, Councils and schools have been selling off the land for private housing for years now. We may have a population ten fold that of Croatia but it wouldn't surpise me one bit if we had less kids hungry for success.

McQuack's gone btw it's official.

[berolina]

...
ps. Germany did a trick again. By not winning against Wales, not being in the top group, evading the bigger teams. Always down to nasty tricks

Yes, I guess so. But since I switched Germany for Portugal as favourite NT, I don't really care which group Germany ends up. Anyway, it seems Portugal did the same nasty trick

(Remember the draw for the world cup with the heated balls, Matthaeus? )

No, I don't. Which one was that? 2006?

[PaulTheSoave]

Yes, when the draw was made there is some close up footage, Matthaeus takes one of the Kugeln but then drops it and takes another one. On different sport channels (BBC, Hollaendisches Fernsehen, RAI UNO) it was mentioned some of them were heated (and been recognized) to favour the hosts an easy first round draw (which actually happened).

No, I don't. Which one was that? 2006?

[Mellow Yellow]

Yes, when the draw was made there is some close up footage, Matthaeus takes one of the Kugeln but then drops it and takes another one. On different sport channels (BBC, Hollaendisches Fernsehen, RAI UNO) it was mentioned some of them were heated (and been recognized) to favour the hosts an easy first round draw (which actually happened).

surely this can't be true???

anyways back to last night, it was sink or swim for mclaren and he gambled on Carson (a bad decision with hindsight) but if carson had played the game of his life and kept out all 3 goals (all were stoppable imho) then mclaren would be hailed as a legend.

I agree our tactics lost us the game in the end and there was no passion what-so-ever.

In reality who is going to take the job now, with no real competitive games for a year or so...........

Even with the best manager in the world you cannot pollish a turd!

[attilahun]

England lost because they were too confident after Israel had beaten Russia and that cost them. Last night McLaren's lineup was a lineup for a draw. He wanted a draw and he got nothing.
Anyway, i don't think England deserved to qualify after all because they played only a few good games and all of them were at home, and i think this is not enough to earn you a place in Euro 2008.

But the good news is that Romania had topped the qualifying group ( ahead of Holland ) and is going to Euro 2008.

[Watford]

Of course I have spoken to many Englishmen, in fact I even know a few.

But for as long as I've been reading English papers, which is the last few years, they tend to put way too much in the hands of the manager. The manager of a national team has in 9 cases out of 10 very little impact on the team's results.

Under Sven's management England got to the quarter-finals in three straight championships. Judging by the form the English national team has shown during the last 10 years, that was, if anything, an overachievement.

The sacking of Steve McLaren will in itself have very little or no impact on the level of quality on which the team regularly performs.

Hedge this is total crap!
The manager makes a huge difference! If Bilic had picked the England team last night they would have got through. The managers decision to play Carson the Liverpool sub and Villa keeper cost us heavily. Never mind playing Lescott , Bridge and changing the formation.
England in Quarters and overachievement what!!!!
Lots of teams keep Qualifying for things what have Sweden ever done?
How many Swedish clubs have won European Trophys?
You've only ever had one good player!
We've seen your other player on the second string at Everton and Villa ooo wow!
Norway are a bigger footballing nation than Sweden!

[Alex0paul]

But for as long as I've been reading English papers, which is the last few years, they tend to put way too much in the hands of the manager. The manager of a national team has in 9 cases out of 10 very little impact on the team's results.

Well the two massive games against Croatia he played two stupid systems. A 3-5-2 away at Croatia and last night a 4-5-1. Also he picks Scott Carson to lay in goal ahead of David James and Robert Green (not even in the squad) and Wayne Bridge who has been injured all season. Its his job to motivate the players and if he can't do that then he deserves everything he gets.

there is only a handful of english internationaltop players in my opinion. Rooney, Terry, Lampard

Lampard and John"He didn't play as well as he can"Terry are overated. You seem to be forgetting Steve Gerrard and Gary Neville though.

[Kingscratcher]

Gerrard was shocking last night, and for McClaren to play 4-5-1 at home is laughable. I think McClaren's reign was summed up when England came back to 2.2 after their best (only?) period of attacking play in the game, and he was immediately off the bench telling them to get their shape back defensively, ie invite Croatia to come and score again, which is exactly what they did. It was also never a game to blood an inexperienced keeper in. Ian Wright and Lineker's faces at the end were priceless though

[hegeland]

Hedge this is total crap!
The manager makes a huge difference! If Bilic had picked the England team last night they would have got through. The managers decision to play Carson the Liverpool sub and Villa keeper cost us heavily. Never mind playing Lescott , Bridge and changing the formation.

Before you rate my opinion as "total crap" perhaps you should read my post again as I'm not talking just about last night's match in which obviously McLaren made a couple of crucial mistakes. Any thoughts on whether they would have won or lost if McLaren had made The Perfect Tactial Choice will only be speculations as we cannot know.

England in Quarters and overachievement what!!!!

England was in september ranked at no 11 and will fall behind Romania, Scotland or lower at the next update. Quarter-finalists are the top 8. And besides, I didn't say that it actaully was an overachievement, just that it is rather an overachievement than an underachievement, something which can be verified by the FIFA world rankings.

Lots of teams keep Qualifying for things what have Sweden ever done?
How many Swedish clubs have won European Trophys?
You've only ever had one good player!
We've seen your other player on the second string at Everton and Villa ooo wow!
Norway are a bigger footballing nation than Sweden!

Feel free to have a go at Sweden if that makes you feel any better. I just want you to know that any attempts at provoking me are in vain and I resist your attempt to take this discussion into kindergarden level. You are free to PM me if you have anything more to share along the lines of the above quoted.