ENGLAND v CROATIA

[PaulTheSoave]

Gerrard, thought of him after I posted it, but Neville ? Around 4 top players is not enough to win anything. The teams who rule the Premier League are all dominated by overseas players. Look at The Arsenal, first Bergkamp, then Henry and now its Van Persie, Fabregas etc, etc, . Talking to the arsenal fans last october their hero was / is still Bergkamp, while no one mentioned Tony Adams or Wright. Says enough me thinks.

I wonder why no one mentioned Alec Ferguson for the job!!

ps. It is actual nothing new, Englands' last prize was in 1966.

Lampard and John"He didn't play as well as he can"Terry are overated. You seem to be forgetting Steve Gerrard and Gary Neville though.

[dantuck_7]

Feel free to have a go at Sweden if that makes you feel any better. I just want you to know that any attempts at provoking me are in vain and I resist your attempt to take this discussion into kindergarden level. You are free to PM me if you have anything more to share along the lines of the above quoted.

Sounds to me like you cannot name a swedish team with any pedigree.

Going back to the point about how much impact a manager can have. Look what Ferguson did with Aberdeen, Clough with Nottingham Forest and Derby, you could also add Mourinho with Porto. These were average teams that went on to do very well in europe due to the tactics and the managers ability to get players performing at the top of their potential for the team.

[calebk]

swedish teams now are considerably weaker since their top players all leave sweden. but their top players are class....would you have put in crouch if ibrahimovic was an option available to england? i think not....

[Caroline]

Even I dare to say that it is only Mclaren to blame for this disaster. I can't believe how he could be so confident to leave experienced keeper and Beckham etc. on the bench, in such a die and dust last match!! He took off all the pressure needed on Croatia! Look at how the French coach did last year. When in danger, he was clever enough to call back Zizou, Thuram to save him and they chanted to the world cup final!

[Valderie]

I agree with quite a lot of what has been said already. The number of foreign players in the Premiership is ludicrous, something has to be done about this asap, otherwise there will be no young England players coming through. Most of those who did play weren't giving 100% by any stretch of the imagination -compare this with the Croatia team who didn't even need to win but were trying right till the last minute and I can't imagine they are paid anything like the huge amounts that our players get.
I think the Manager must take a lot of the blame for selecting in-experienced players, far too important a match to do that! Finally, I think it's the first time I've even seen a Manager on the touchline holding an umberella!!!

[marshall]

The number of foreign players in the Championship is ludicrous, something has to be done about this asap, otherwise there will be no young England players coming through.

I've read that the number of foreign players in England is over 60% and I think too that this is a big problem. There is the 6+5 plan from Sepp Blatter and I think that this could be one solution to integrate more young English player in th Premier League.

[hegeland]

Sounds to me like you cannot name a swedish team with any pedigree.

Going back to the point about how much impact a manager can have. Look what Ferguson did with Aberdeen, Clough with Nottingham Forest and Derby, you could also add Mourinho with Porto. These were average teams that went on to do very well in europe due to the tactics and the managers ability to get players performing at the top of their potential for the team.

Of course I cannot name anyone - because there are none. England has got 51 million inhabitants. Sweden's got 9. The best swedish teams would get comfortably beaten by any class three English team. But what has Sweden got to do with the problems of the English national team? That's a bit like saying Willie Thorne's opinions about players choice of shots or whatever are unvalid, as he wasn't very successful himself.

About the impact of the manager, I think you are comparing apples and pears as there's a huge difference between being a manager for a club or a national team. In a club the manager is very important as his impact is so much bigger than in an national team. In a national team you have to work with whatever players you happen to have, there's really very little room for buildning up tactics and strategies as you only meet a few days each year etc. I merely stated that the impact a manager for a national team has is very limited, not that any manager is without impact.

[Qubit]

Of course I cannot name anyone - because there are none. England has got 51 million inhabitants. Sweden's got 9. The best swedish teams would get comfortably beaten by any class three English team. But what has Sweden got to do with the problems of the English national team? That's a bit like saying Willie Thorne's opinions about players choice of shots or whatever are unvalid, as he wasn't very successful himself.

About the impact of the manager, I think you are comparing apples and pears as there's a huge difference between being a manager for a club or a national team. In a club the manager is very important as his impact is so much bigger than in an national team. In a national team you have to work with whatever players you happen to have, there's really very little room for buildning up tactics and strategies as you only meet a few days each year etc. I merely stated that the impact a manager for a national team has is very limited, not that any manager is without impact.

All that means is that a decent manager will be able to make more impact with less time to do it in. In this instance it really is the manager to blame, ive always said he's a useless manager, his record at middlesborough before was pretty ropey (especially defensively), he is tactically unware, and nor is he a good motivator. Playing a completely inexperienced goalkeeper in a game like that is just the actions of an idiot frankly. He only did it to try and make Robinson the scapegoat for all the other bad results recently. Despite all the problems with the amount of foreign players in the premieleague there is more than enough talent to qualify for an event such as the Euro finals.

Just for the record, i dont particularly rate Lampard. Nor Gerrard (who all too frequently has off days - not what you need from a national player, you need someone who will be good all the time, rather than occasionally very good and sometimes dreadful, Rio Ferdinand is another one of those) actually, and they clearly cannot play in the same team together.

[PaulTheSoave]

I have to agree the manager can make the exception. But they are the exception. ONe to name is Ernst Happel who lead Feyenoord Rotterdam to wim the european cup and the dutch national team to the world final in Argentina. The dutch playing without the likes of Cruyff. Furthermore he went to win the european cup with Hamburger SV which was not a topteam at all. Happel is an icon!

To blame Mclaren solely is a bit rude as so many managers have failed over the years. Too many to name them all.

All that means is that a decent manager will be able to make more impact with less time to do it in. In this instance it really is the manager to blame, ive always said he's a useless manager, his record at middlesborough before was pretty ropey (especially defensively), he is tactically unware, and nor is he a good motivator. Playing a completely inexperienced goalkeeper in a game like that is just the actions of an idiot frankly. He only did it to try and make Robinson the scapegoat for all the other bad results recently. Despite all the problems with the amount of foreign players in the premieleague there is more than enough talent to qualify for an event such as the Euro finals.

Just for the record, i dont particularly rate Lampard. Nor Gerrard (who all too frequently has off days - not what you need from a national player, you need someone who will be good all the time, rather than occasionally very good and sometimes dreadful, Rio Ferdinand is another one of those) actually, and they clearly cannot play in the same team together.

[Ekphantos]

Happel is an icon!

Whenever it come to football questions in "Trivial Pursuit" I try Happel, as I don't know much about the sport Seems to be correct more often than not

[Alex0paul]

I wonder why no one mentioned Alec Ferguson for the job!!

He doesn't exist

[PaulTheSoave]

I meant Alex Stewart of course!

He doesn't exist

[ADR147]

What a total shower of muppets, i am by no means anti english and i would like to have seen the likes of rooney etc in euro2008 but in the end the way they played throughout the campaign they had no business going through, makes you proud to be a Scot

england don't and have not for a long time played like a team, they are a collection of great players who don't play together enough and do not appear commited at all. seriously though i know absolutely nothing about football but i think i could pick and manage the team better than S.M has, with the players an england manager has to choose from most managers would be laughing and rubbing their hands together, its time for a total overhall and to get some of the youngsters who still have the drive out on the pitch.

[dantuck_7]

Scotland - yes they did really well in the qualifying with some very tough teams in the same group. I can't help thinking of the phrase 'glorious failure' which again sums up Scotlands attempt.

For England 'dismal failure' is a better description. Away from home they were just awful. I hope a home-nations tournament is organised - maybe neutral venues could be used for some of the matches.

[ADR147]

not a bad idea home nations - england might come bottom of that aswell!