Trevor White cue for swapsies for antique cue!

[old school]

Airin I agree that it is perhaps unfair to compare old vs new and frankly if MW had defined his parameters , instead of saying " I know how crap"old" cues are" ( and yes MW I know that you were talking about quality,not playability) then I would have kept my mouth shut.To me you must compare like for like and in doing so maintain a fair perspective.We all know people such as yourself,MW,TW,Coutts,Robin etc produce quality cues, end of ,but if you compare a machine spliced Mannock for example against a machine spliced chain store or "sports shop" special,then that is a fairer comparison (not custom vs old production line) and no contest to the Mannock,that is what I was trying to say.To call "old cues, crap" without defining what you are comparing them to is ,to me,wrong and yes I will concede that comparing MWs work to an " older cue" would mean a win for MW,but its not a fair comparison.Owning an older,playable,good quality cue is very satisfying and is like playing with a piece of history, as you have quite rightly said,they are rare and will only get rarer as the years go by.I have enjoyed this debate Airin and I have appreciated your viewpoints from the cuemakers perspective,thank you.

[jay_j]

i should point out that i am a huge fan of older cues i am just saying its a safer bet to buy a modern cue to play with, that said some older cues are more likely to be more usable than others. for example cannon match cues tend to be very good players and eureka's tend to be like fly fishing rods!

that's good to hear as i did end up getting that 1st edition cannon match cue

[poolqjunkie]

Airin I agree that it is perhaps unfair to compare old vs new and frankly if MW had defined his parameters , instead of saying " I know how crap"old" cues are" ( and yes MW I know that you were talking about quality,not playability) then I would have kept my mouth shut.To me you must compare like for like and in doing so maintain a fair perspective.We all know people such as yourself,MW,TW,Coutts,Robin etc produce quality cues, end of ,but if you compare a machine spliced Mannock for example against a machine spliced chain store or "sports shop" special,then that is a fairer comparison (not custom vs old production line) and no contest to the Mannock,that is what I was trying to say.To call "old cues, crap" without defining what you are comparing them to is ,to me,wrong and yes I will concede that comparing MWs work to an " older cue" would mean a win for MW,but its not a fair comparison.Owning an older,playable,good quality cue is very satisfying and is like playing with a piece of history, as you have quite rightly said,they are rare and will only get rarer as the years go by.I have enjoyed this debate Airin and I have appreciated your viewpoints from the cuemakers perspective,thank you.

Hi Old School, the interesting thing is I also would have also kept my mouth shut if the other poster did not say that the wood used in old cues are far far superior than the modern day cues. :-)
I really enjoy your input and I am glad you have decied to 'speak up" as your point of view is very valid and valuable. Thank you.
By the way, I have always wonder about this and would be very grateful if anyone can tell me whether a player can go into say B&W and ask for a Mannock made to his spec in the early days? Could Alex Higgins go to the factory and say I want your best cue and I want it made to such and such, or did he have to just go pick one that suits him?
Thank you.

[JasonOwen]

So are we at the pinnacle of cue making now?
What could be done any better than is being made at present?
Couldnt be more accurate, precise, already making to specs with perfect multiple splices, the joints have been worked on to perfection, the tips now have evolved.

Thinking along the lines that black ebony could well be extinct within 10-20 years, will the 2010-2020 be known as the best era of cues?

[JasonOwen]

By the way, Ive had over 400 old cues in my hand over the last 8 years, ive considered every single one as a playing cue and only ever taken 4 to the club to seriously trial. They were all later BW Champions.

The only way you'll play well with an old cue is if you were brought up playing with that cue. All the Pro's started and succeeded with old or inferior cues and pretty much all have progressed onto modern made cues (except Dominic Dale and the chubby ginger fella!)

[ADR147]

Hi Old School, the interesting thing is I also would have also kept my mouth shut if the other poster did not say that the wood used in old cues are far far superior than the modern day cues. :-)
I really enjoy your input and I am glad you have decied to 'speak up" as your point of view is very valid and valuable. Thank you.
By the way, I have always wonder about this and would be very grateful if anyone can tell me whether a player can go into say B&W and ask for a Mannock made to his spec in the early days? Could Alex Higgins go to the factory and say I want your best cue and I want it made to such and such, or did he have to just go pick one that suits him?
Thank you.

same as now the customer is king.

[poolqjunkie]

same as now the customer is king.

But most of them look pretty standard, e.g. Eureka would be made in Tulip and so on...so were customers pretty much limited to stock models but were allowed to choose weight, butt size, length and tip size...
Or could they also specify wood choice?
Can they say, for example, I want a Mannock but I want it made with a front birdseye face rather than snake or burr?

[poolqjunkie]

So are we at the pinnacle of cue making now?
What could be done any better than is being made at present?
Couldnt be more accurate, precise, already making to specs with perfect multiple splices, the joints have been worked on to perfection, the tips now have evolved.

Thinking along the lines that black ebony could well be extinct within 10-20 years, will the 2010-2020 be known as the best era of cues?

There are still room to improve, there will always be.

[old school]

I cant definatively say whether or not you could go to places like B & W and specify a cues exact build ,however I am pretty sure that the"patented secret joint" whilst available across the range,was fitted to customer order,so customer input must have been possible,even if only through retail outlets .Mannocks were made with a number of different front and secondary splices,but maybe they were made as a "range" according to fashion or available timber.i.e.Snakewood on one set,Rosewood next then Thuya then Tulipwood etc.I believe that when they were in Soho Square,London, public access was OK but whether or not you could request a "custom " build I dont know.ADR or 100upper may be able to shed some light on this.In a way high profile players have always been sought out to promote cue manufacturers,look at all the "signature series" cues that were available,in past years and even today (look at American Pool cue endorsements,for an example closer to home).If Alex walked into a modern equivalent of B&W say 15yrs ago,they would have cut off their right arm to accomodate him ( think JP now).Endorsements go back a long way,ask Jason or check his website.Jason ,I am with Airin,there is always room to improve,if perfection was acheived we would have no where to go and nothing to aim for,thats sad.

[ADR147]

But most of them look pretty standard, e.g. Eureka would be made in Tulip and so on...so were customers pretty much limited to stock models but were allowed to choose weight, butt size, length and tip size...
Or could they also specify wood choice?
Can they say, for example, I want a Mannock but I want it made with a front birdseye face rather than snake or burr?

i am sure it was possible i have seen all sorts of different things like that.