john parris ultimate

[old school]

I was going to keep out of this but I feel I cant ignore the tone of some comments.Here is a word for word extract of a PM between the poster and myself,dated 4th Jan at 5.57. " Playing really well with it shame its not that bit longer.Can I ask your honest opinion should I ebay it ? Few people say I should". He goes on to state " Dont know much about Parris cues thanks".(name with held,my choice to do so) I told him it was worth much more than he paid for it ( even in its present state i.e. not totally Parris) and that apart from fees and non payers making life a misery,e-bay was the way to go.I also stated that ADR or Chris Lloyd or Mike Fearnley may be interested but that it was entirely up to him as to what to do AND I stand by every word.The original buyer,in my opinion, did NOT buy the cue to make a profit,he bought it to use as his playing cue and it didnt work out.As I have stated it is entirely up to the purchaser as to how he chooses to dispose of this cue and he should not be vilified for the way that he has chosen.Apologies for the rant ,but I thought someone had to set the record straight.

[poolqjunkie]

This is why, in my humble opinion, price should be kept private as it, more often than it should, creates a lot of un-necessary troubles for all parties involved.

[Neil Taperell]

In my opinion he should split the profit with Dave .

[hotpot]

I was in a similar predicament a short while age . Basically i bought a cue off someone and had it a lot cheaper than what it was worth as a good gesture will so to speak for a returning customer . Anyway i tried the cue and found it was,nt quite what i was lookin for so decided to sell it on .

I knew what the cue was worth so contacted the seller and told him i,m going to sell but did,nt want to make a profit on his back and good work . The seller said he was happy for me to sell it at whatever price i could get for it so i did , i did feel guilty and offered him half the profit margin , but he declined .

I guess the bottom line is as long as they are both happy then so be it , it,s between those Two at the end of the day and no one else .

[Neil Taperell]

I was in a similar predicament a short while age . Basically i bought a cue off someone and had it a lot cheaper than what it was worth as a good gesture will so to speak for a returning customer . Anyway i tried the cue and found it was,nt quite what i was lookin for so decided to sell it on .

I knew what the cue was worth so contacted the seller and told him i,m going to sell but did,nt want to make a profit on his back and good work . The seller said he was happy for me to sell it at whatever price i could get for it so i did , i did feel guilty and offered him half the profit margin , but he declined .

I guess the bottom line is as long as they are both happy then so be it , it,s between those Two at the end of the day and no one else .

Nice gesture Neil....... you did the right thing ......you are a Gentleman Sir .

[poolqjunkie]

If someone buys a cue off me and then is able to turn around and make a profit I am happy for him. The way I look at it is good for both parties because the customer is happy which is really the most important thing. I am not interested in just making a one time quick sale. It also tells me my cues are being sort after which also makes me happy. So, in my book, it is a win-win.:-)

I know this is a slightly situation but in a way it is similiar because as a good seller, I feel that snookerpoolman is probably just happy for the guy. Can we just leave them alone, please?

[coomsey76]

Nice gesture Neil....... you did the right thing ......you are a Gentleman Sir .

Indeed it's all about principals!!

[jaffa.johnson]

He owns the cue and has the right to sell it which way is best for him.

Dave could have sold the cue for much more but he choose not too. That was his choice.

Hotpot, what you did was a very kind gesture and possibly one I would offer but at the end of the day, he bought the cue for what he did and can sell it for whatever he wants.

[ADR147]

its easy, you sell the cue, if you make a profit that's so much money you feel guilty you send the guy you bought it from a bottle of single malt. the end.

[snookerpoolman]

Guys.... I'll attempt in this post to answer all the points raised in this long and winding thread...If I miss any, well hey, I'm only human!

First of all thanks for all the kind messages. Much appreciated to you all.

I did sell the cue to Mat earlier this week and yes it was for £350 inc. a new case. This was a price that I was happy with and Yes I did deliver it to him as his girlfriend lives very close to where I go regularly on business. I offered Mat the option to try the cue and I would buy it back if he wasn't 100% happy with it, again as I'm in Leeds at least a couple of times a month.

The cue is 100% genuine - a JP Ultimate made around 1996. It was brand new and, as far as I'm aware, never used, prior to me buying it from Nigel. (from memory I think Nigel said it was one of a pair,or possibly a copy of his original cue - but this is a conversation I had over 15 years ago, so please understand that even with my Rock n Roll lifestyle, I've had a sleep since then!!). Nige offered me the cue as, at the time, I was in a similar position to Mat with no cue due to some low life stealing mine and it's case from a car break-in.

It is not a pool cue, as some have stated. As my game has improved, I have gradually reduced the tip size down from it's original 10mm to it's current 8.75mm. It's a very stiff ash shaft, and is amazing for long pots with so little deflection and yes you're right Dwot - it has served me well. I've had a shed load of breaks with it inc. a 132 clearance, won a singles and doubles comp., two other finals etc. etc...

The listing information is slightly incorrect on Ebay. This, I believe, is a genuine mistake by Mat, rather than any attempt to deceive any potential buyer. Look at the other thread (I think it's entitled "finally!!!!!") all the specs and alterations are detailed there...He also states that it can be alter back to 9mm or 10mm for £65 by Parris - not sure about this I suspect an alteration by JP would cost a lot more than this, but I could be wrong.

The badge number thing is a red herring - as far as I'm aware, the Ultimates of this era didn't have numbered badges (but no doubt someone on here will contradict me!) As pointed out by one respondent, the feathers on the shaft do meet the ferrule, nothing suspect in this, as you can imagine after 15 years playing constantly with this cue, I've been through more tips and ferrules than I care to remember, so it's a fair bit shorter than original. Plus as stated, it doesn't alter either the esthetics or the playing characteristics of the cue.

As the members and friends on here that have had dealings with me know, I'm a straightforward kind of guy. I sold the cue, Mat bought it, now he's selling it. Does that bother me?? (I hear you all ask!)
No, not at all. I buy and sell stuff all the time and far be it from me to have a problem with anyone else doing it. Be it snooker cues, pool tables, re-covering, snooker tables or accessories, over the years I've supplied and worked on the lot and everything in-between,so why should I have a problem if someone else makes a few quid?? Money isn't everything chaps!

But hasn't he gone back on our agreement?? Well it was an offer genuinely made in good faith. Mat can answer for himself how he sees it. I have no problem if he makes a turn on the cue. When he reads this he may wish to contact me about a customised cue more to his spec. (some would say this is the decent thing to do having made a tidy profit on the JP, but I couldn't possibly comment).

Why have you sold such a nice cue? Because at the end of November I collected my Customised Cue Craft Marksman, a real beauty, based around the specs of the JP, very stiff ash shaft, lovely Ebony butt,
slightly longer and half an ounce heavier (as of late I've felt the JP was lacking in both these departments), Mini-butt Air-lock joint, tele-scopic ext. and a new case! When I get chance, I'll try to put up some pics for you all to glory in the beauty of what I can truthfully say is a work of art!!! After 2 weeks playing with it I did a line-up (not my favourite practice routine, but I do this occasionally) and cleared 15 reds, 15 colours, yellow, green & brown for 111. So maybe that's why?

Yes JP is a good cue-maker, that is not in dispute. But he's not the only one. It has never been my intention to knock other cue manufacturers, never will be. Rather, my position as representing Cue Craft on the forum has always been to redress the balance to a more common sense approach to customised cues.

To explain: there is a rather biased attitude on here from some that the only way to have a good playing cue is to pay £400 - £800, wait 6 - 12 months and hope you like the end result when it eventually arrives. For a start, what do you play snooker while you're waiting upto a whole year for the cue to arrive??? This, in my opinion, is bonkers (and very unfair to new and intermediate standard players who enquire on TSF for help in choosing a decent cue).
I offer a 2 -3 week turn-around from order to get any hand spliced cue made to the customer's specs. This is a far more realistic time frame. The quality is equally as good as any hand spliced cue I've ever tried and the price? well you'll be paying 30 - 50% less than with many other cuemakers regularly lauded on here.

So, in conclusion, I wait along with you all with baited breath to see what the cue goes for. Hopefully Mat will contact me at some stage, but again, this is his choice.

Hope I've covered everything, but probably not...

Cheers, Dave, Snookerpoolman

[jim evans]

dave not quite whats mats bird like lol

[jrc750]

dave not quite whats mats bird like lol

That's strange Jim, i was just thinking the same

[jim evans]

2 of a kind then jr snookers only a pastime

[snookerpoolman]

That's strange Jim, i was just thinking the same

Don't know...didn't see her. Off out now...later chaps!

[cally]

Guys.... I'll attempt in this post to answer all the points raised in this long and winding thread...If I miss any, well hey, I'm only human!

First of all thanks for all the kind messages. Much appreciated to you all.

I did sell the cue to Mat earlier this week and yes it was for £350 inc. a new case. This was a price that I was happy with and Yes I did deliver it to him as his girlfriend lives very close to where I go regularly on business. I offered Mat the option to try the cue and I would buy it back if he wasn't 100% happy with it, again as I'm in Leeds at least a couple of times a month.

The cue is 100% genuine - a JP Ultimate made around 1996. It was brand new and, as far as I'm aware, never used, prior to me buying it from Nigel. (from memory I think Nigel said it was one of a pair,or possibly a copy of his original cue - but this is a conversation I had over 15 years ago, so please understand that even with my Rock n Roll lifestyle, I've had a sleep since then!!). Nige offered me the cue as, at the time, I was in a similar position to Mat with no cue due to some low life stealing mine and it's case from a car break-in.

It is not a pool cue, as some have stated. As my game has improved, I have gradually reduced the tip size down from it's original 10mm to it's current 8.75mm. It's a very stiff ash shaft, and is amazing for long pots with so little deflection and yes you're right Dwot - it has served me well. I've had a shed load of breaks with it inc. a 132 clearance, won a singles and doubles comp., two other finals etc. etc...

The listing information is slightly incorrect on Ebay. This, I believe, is a genuine mistake by Mat, rather than any attempt to deceive any potential buyer. Look at the other thread (I think it's entitled "finally!!!!!") all the specs and alterations are detailed there...He also states that it can be alter back to 9mm or 10mm for £65 by Parris - not sure about this I suspect an alteration by JP would cost a lot more than this, but I could be wrong.

The badge number thing is a red herring - as far as I'm aware, the Ultimates of this era didn't have numbered badges (but no doubt someone on here will contradict me!) As pointed out by one respondent, the feathers on the shaft do meet the ferrule, nothing suspect in this, as you can imagine after 15 years playing constantly with this cue, I've been through more tips and ferrules than I care to remember, so it's a fair bit shorter than original. Plus as stated, it doesn't alter either the esthetics or the playing characteristics of the cue.

As the members and friends on here that have had dealings with me know, I'm a straightforward kind of guy. I sold the cue, Mat bought it, now he's selling it. Does that bother me?? (I hear you all ask!)
No, not at all. I buy and sell stuff all the time and far be it from me to have a problem with anyone else doing it. Be it snooker cues, pool tables, re-covering, snooker tables or accessories, over the years I've supplied and worked on the lot and everything in-between,so why should I have a problem if someone else makes a few quid?? Money isn't everything chaps!

But hasn't he gone back on our agreement?? Well it was an offer genuinely made in good faith. Mat can answer for himself how he sees it. I have no problem if he makes a turn on the cue. When he reads this he may wish to contact me about a customised cue more to his spec. (some would say this is the decent thing to do having made a tidy profit on the JP, but I couldn't possibly comment).

Why have you sold such a nice cue? Because at the end of November I collected my Customised Cue Craft Marksman, a real beauty, based around the specs of the JP, very stiff ash shaft, lovely Ebony butt,
slightly longer and half an ounce heavier (as of late I've felt the JP was lacking in both these departments), Mini-butt Air-lock joint, tele-scopic ext. and a new case! When I get chance, I'll try to put up some pics for you all to glory in the beauty of what I can truthfully say is a work of art!!! After 2 weeks playing with it I did a line-up (not my favourite practice routine, but I do this occasionally) and cleared 15 reds, 15 colours, yellow, green & brown for 111. So maybe that's why?

Yes JP is a good cue-maker, that is not in dispute. But he's not the only one. It has never been my intention to knock other cue manufacturers, never will be. Rather, my position as representing Cue Craft on the forum has always been to redress the balance to a more common sense approach to customised cues.

To explain: there is a rather biased attitude on here from some that the only way to have a good playing cue is to pay £400 - £800, wait 6 - 12 months and hope you like the end result when it eventually arrives. For a start, what do you play snooker while you're waiting upto a whole year for the cue to arrive??? This, in my opinion, is bonkers (and very unfair to new and intermediate standard players who enquire on TSF for help in choosing a decent cue).
I offer a 2 -3 week turn-around from order to get any hand spliced cue made to the customer's specs. This is a far more realistic time frame. The quality is equally as good as any hand spliced cue I've ever tried and the price? well you'll be paying 30 - 50% less than with many other cuemakers regularly lauded on here.

So, in conclusion, I wait along with you all with baited breath to see what the cue goes for. Hopefully Mat will contact me at some stage, but again, this is his choice.

Hope I've covered everything, but probably not...

Cheers, Dave, Snookerpoolman

Top post and just how i thought you'd feel about it...


Some of the members here defo got double std's for sure though eh...



ATB...