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As a few of you might know, I'm currently going through a messy situation trying to buy a cue from a newer member of the forum. Hopefully, it all gets resolved. Buying a cue in this way is a gamble because I have no practical way to see/verify the cue.
But here is an idea: What if someone from South Wales, a forum member here, volunteered to be a purchaser on my behalf? What if there was a standing list of members with a decent honest reputation that were willing to act as proxy, essentially exchange money for cue with a seller on behalf of a buyer, and then also volunteer to ship the cue out? Once the issues I'm dealing with on the cue happened, I came to realize a few good men were still around and I could have probably just asked for help from them.
As a volunteer (paid or not), it's up to you to set the terms of how/where you would participate. But I think at the very least it's your duty to ensure the cue is shipped to the eventual buyer safely and as promised. As you would be the proxy, the seller would only get the money once you have verified that the conditions have been met. It's also your duty to ensure the seller's safety by making sure the money is paid to you, the proxy, in full by the buyer. I think that's a given.
Here is how it could work:
1. Mark wants a cue from Bob. Mark is in Hong Kong, Bob is in Wales.
2. Tom lives in Wales and is a verified, reputable cue sale proxy volunteer as per this thread.
3. Mark informs Bob that he will be buying the cue through Tom, a volunteer proxy as listed here.
4. If Bob agrees (and why shouldn't he if he has nothing to hide), Mark will then send Tom the full payment for the cue and shipping.
5. Tom deposits said funds, and then arranges to visit the seller at a safe location to pay for the cue (how about your police office or snooker club?)
6. If the cue is in the condition stated in the original sale, and the buyer's requirements are met (weight, whip, etc), then Tom confirms the ad as posted here or on Ebay is safe/true and gives Mark a yay/nay. Tom then pays the seller, and takes possession of the cue.
7. Tom ships the cue to Mark as he has been given the funds necessary to do so during the transaction. Everyone is happy!
Interested to participate?
I'm not sure what the criteria are or even if it's OK to charge the buyer to make a few quid on the side (gas, time, etc) as a volunteer. I guess that's up to you as an individual and something I'm not going to state here. It's also up to the other thread subscribers here to determine if you are in fact worth of that duty in your city, regional area. For now, just leave your name stating the city/area/region you can cover on behalf of other members here.
Minimum volunteer requirements
These are all just suggestions. I'm totally open to ideas.
- 500 posts on TSF (I have 530
so that puts me in the good)
- Publicly available contact information?
- Mug shot available for all to see?
- Personal address shared with all other Volunteer proxy members?
- Membership verified by other Proxy volunteers?
Benefits/Costs for Buyers
Most obviously, you will not get fleeced. As long as the verified volunteer here is reputable and everyone else recognizes them as so, you should be in safe hands. You may have to pay a few extra quid/dollars to Proxy volunteers as suggested above but at least you know the transaction will proceed to completion. It's up to you if you wish to use the service of course. I make no demands that this Proxy idea thing is a required process for cue purchases. It's entirely up to you. Perhaps on a cheap cue, it's just not worth the time/effort but if you are buying a 600 quid Woolridge, it might be useful to spend the extra 40 quid for a Proxy volunteer from here that can cover your ass.
Benefits/Costs to Sellers
You get paid cash from the Proxy volunteer. No muss, no fuss. You don't even have to ship the cue - in fact that is something the Volunteer is required to do (see below).
Benefits/Costs to Volunteers
Taking on this job is a big responsibility. You have to respect the buyer's wishes, handle his money, and make sure the cue is safely transacted. You should probably also have a scale and digital caliper on you when you see the cue. If you don't know much about cues, you might not be a good candidate as a volunteer here. You should know the parts of a cue, what to look for when buying, and should have an eye for detail (for example to see tiny cracks or what have you). You should also be diligent to report on anything that wasn't originally stated in the ad (like a bad ferrule). Most importantly, its your job as a volunteer to ship the cue out to the buyer's verified home address. I think that's a given.
FAQ
1. When should I send the money? You should first inform the seller you wish to use a proxy listed here and see if they agree. They have the right to refuse I suppose but that should tell you something about the sale anyways. Then you should also get permission from the proxy for their time/service. The proxy might not be available to help you in which case that could leave you less protected.
2. Why don't I just visit the seller myself? Up to you. Maybe you need help from a Senior member that knows cues. Maybe you don't feel safe doing the transaction on your own. Maybe you live too far away like overseas. It's your call and you aren't required to do anything here.
3. Can I pay the proxy volunteer after I get the cue? Unlikely. You have to understand, the volunteers here only ensure your transaction goes smoothly and to completion. They can look at the cue, take additional photos and do whatever else you might ask of them to ensure the cue is as stated. The terms of their services is entirely up to them. Remember, this post is all about volunteer efforts. If you want additional insurance, pay for it. If the cue breaks in transit, know it wasn't the volunteer's fault as they have a reputation on TSF here to uphold.
4. Why don't I just use a regular proxy system like escrow.com? Well you can, but I think a qualified member here know cues better than some escrow.com representative. I mean do you really want escrow.com to verify that the cue is in fact a Mike Woolridge and that the butt diameter is in fact 29mm and that it plays OK without any bad joints or cracks in the butt? I'm pretty sure escrow.com doesn't have the ability to do that.
5. Can I specify how the cue is to be shipped/packaged? Sure. Up to you. The volunteers listed here can choose to help you or not. Remember, nobody listed here is required to help you if you don't ask nicely. I think it's a given though that a volunteer listed here would make sure your cue was packaged up well enough and sent in good hands. If you aren't sure, ask.
6. Who pays for the packaging/shipping? Well you, the buyer, do of course. Same as before except that someone listed here is making sure the seller gives the cue and has it packaged up ready for shipping. You should probably ask the seller to package the cue up, or have the packaging materials ready for the proxy volunteer to take with them. Otherwise, arrange to pay the proxy volunteer listed here for the extra work they may need to do.
7. As a Proxy Volunteer, shall I open a packaged up cue? Absolutely. The whole idea is to reduce fraud/scams on TSF. It's your job as a volunteer to ensure authenticity and improve transaction safety.You are working on behalf of the cue buyer and seller to ensure both are satisfied. The buyer gets the cue as stated, and the seller gets the money as promised.
List of Volunteers in Regional Areas
I guess since I started the idea, I will be the first to volunteer.
PLEASE CONTACT THE SELLER/BUYER AND THE VOLUNTEER BELOW FOR PERMISSION TO USE THEIR SERVICE BEFORE YOU SEND ANY MONEY. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE BEING INVOLVING IN YOUR TRANSACTION AT THEIR OWN DISCRETION. ASK NICELY AND PEOPLE WILL ACCOMODATE. VOLUNTEERS LISTED HERE ARE DOING THIS AS A BENEFIT TO TSF MEMBERS AND ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HELP YOU IF THEY DON'T WANT TO.
==========================
Burnaby, Canada servicing Lower Mainland and Greater Vancouver.
TSF member name: TheLongBomber. Cost for proxy service: my gas plus $5 bucks (for Tim Horton's) plus costs of money transfer/fees. Not sure if I cover an area? Just ask me. Payments possible via Paypal, Wire, etc. PM me for details or help.
==========================
Edits made to this post:
1/27/2012 - created original post
But here is an idea: What if someone from South Wales, a forum member here, volunteered to be a purchaser on my behalf? What if there was a standing list of members with a decent honest reputation that were willing to act as proxy, essentially exchange money for cue with a seller on behalf of a buyer, and then also volunteer to ship the cue out? Once the issues I'm dealing with on the cue happened, I came to realize a few good men were still around and I could have probably just asked for help from them.
As a volunteer (paid or not), it's up to you to set the terms of how/where you would participate. But I think at the very least it's your duty to ensure the cue is shipped to the eventual buyer safely and as promised. As you would be the proxy, the seller would only get the money once you have verified that the conditions have been met. It's also your duty to ensure the seller's safety by making sure the money is paid to you, the proxy, in full by the buyer. I think that's a given.
Here is how it could work:
1. Mark wants a cue from Bob. Mark is in Hong Kong, Bob is in Wales.
2. Tom lives in Wales and is a verified, reputable cue sale proxy volunteer as per this thread.
3. Mark informs Bob that he will be buying the cue through Tom, a volunteer proxy as listed here.
4. If Bob agrees (and why shouldn't he if he has nothing to hide), Mark will then send Tom the full payment for the cue and shipping.
5. Tom deposits said funds, and then arranges to visit the seller at a safe location to pay for the cue (how about your police office or snooker club?)
6. If the cue is in the condition stated in the original sale, and the buyer's requirements are met (weight, whip, etc), then Tom confirms the ad as posted here or on Ebay is safe/true and gives Mark a yay/nay. Tom then pays the seller, and takes possession of the cue.
7. Tom ships the cue to Mark as he has been given the funds necessary to do so during the transaction. Everyone is happy!
Interested to participate?
I'm not sure what the criteria are or even if it's OK to charge the buyer to make a few quid on the side (gas, time, etc) as a volunteer. I guess that's up to you as an individual and something I'm not going to state here. It's also up to the other thread subscribers here to determine if you are in fact worth of that duty in your city, regional area. For now, just leave your name stating the city/area/region you can cover on behalf of other members here.
Minimum volunteer requirements
These are all just suggestions. I'm totally open to ideas.
- 500 posts on TSF (I have 530
so that puts me in the good)- Publicly available contact information?
- Mug shot available for all to see?
- Personal address shared with all other Volunteer proxy members?
- Membership verified by other Proxy volunteers?
Benefits/Costs for Buyers
Most obviously, you will not get fleeced. As long as the verified volunteer here is reputable and everyone else recognizes them as so, you should be in safe hands. You may have to pay a few extra quid/dollars to Proxy volunteers as suggested above but at least you know the transaction will proceed to completion. It's up to you if you wish to use the service of course. I make no demands that this Proxy idea thing is a required process for cue purchases. It's entirely up to you. Perhaps on a cheap cue, it's just not worth the time/effort but if you are buying a 600 quid Woolridge, it might be useful to spend the extra 40 quid for a Proxy volunteer from here that can cover your ass.
Benefits/Costs to Sellers
You get paid cash from the Proxy volunteer. No muss, no fuss. You don't even have to ship the cue - in fact that is something the Volunteer is required to do (see below).
Benefits/Costs to Volunteers
Taking on this job is a big responsibility. You have to respect the buyer's wishes, handle his money, and make sure the cue is safely transacted. You should probably also have a scale and digital caliper on you when you see the cue. If you don't know much about cues, you might not be a good candidate as a volunteer here. You should know the parts of a cue, what to look for when buying, and should have an eye for detail (for example to see tiny cracks or what have you). You should also be diligent to report on anything that wasn't originally stated in the ad (like a bad ferrule). Most importantly, its your job as a volunteer to ship the cue out to the buyer's verified home address. I think that's a given.
FAQ
1. When should I send the money? You should first inform the seller you wish to use a proxy listed here and see if they agree. They have the right to refuse I suppose but that should tell you something about the sale anyways. Then you should also get permission from the proxy for their time/service. The proxy might not be available to help you in which case that could leave you less protected.
2. Why don't I just visit the seller myself? Up to you. Maybe you need help from a Senior member that knows cues. Maybe you don't feel safe doing the transaction on your own. Maybe you live too far away like overseas. It's your call and you aren't required to do anything here.
3. Can I pay the proxy volunteer after I get the cue? Unlikely. You have to understand, the volunteers here only ensure your transaction goes smoothly and to completion. They can look at the cue, take additional photos and do whatever else you might ask of them to ensure the cue is as stated. The terms of their services is entirely up to them. Remember, this post is all about volunteer efforts. If you want additional insurance, pay for it. If the cue breaks in transit, know it wasn't the volunteer's fault as they have a reputation on TSF here to uphold.
4. Why don't I just use a regular proxy system like escrow.com? Well you can, but I think a qualified member here know cues better than some escrow.com representative. I mean do you really want escrow.com to verify that the cue is in fact a Mike Woolridge and that the butt diameter is in fact 29mm and that it plays OK without any bad joints or cracks in the butt? I'm pretty sure escrow.com doesn't have the ability to do that.
5. Can I specify how the cue is to be shipped/packaged? Sure. Up to you. The volunteers listed here can choose to help you or not. Remember, nobody listed here is required to help you if you don't ask nicely. I think it's a given though that a volunteer listed here would make sure your cue was packaged up well enough and sent in good hands. If you aren't sure, ask.
6. Who pays for the packaging/shipping? Well you, the buyer, do of course. Same as before except that someone listed here is making sure the seller gives the cue and has it packaged up ready for shipping. You should probably ask the seller to package the cue up, or have the packaging materials ready for the proxy volunteer to take with them. Otherwise, arrange to pay the proxy volunteer listed here for the extra work they may need to do.
7. As a Proxy Volunteer, shall I open a packaged up cue? Absolutely. The whole idea is to reduce fraud/scams on TSF. It's your job as a volunteer to ensure authenticity and improve transaction safety.You are working on behalf of the cue buyer and seller to ensure both are satisfied. The buyer gets the cue as stated, and the seller gets the money as promised.
List of Volunteers in Regional Areas
I guess since I started the idea, I will be the first to volunteer.
PLEASE CONTACT THE SELLER/BUYER AND THE VOLUNTEER BELOW FOR PERMISSION TO USE THEIR SERVICE BEFORE YOU SEND ANY MONEY. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE BEING INVOLVING IN YOUR TRANSACTION AT THEIR OWN DISCRETION. ASK NICELY AND PEOPLE WILL ACCOMODATE. VOLUNTEERS LISTED HERE ARE DOING THIS AS A BENEFIT TO TSF MEMBERS AND ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HELP YOU IF THEY DON'T WANT TO.
==========================
Burnaby, Canada servicing Lower Mainland and Greater Vancouver.
TSF member name: TheLongBomber. Cost for proxy service: my gas plus $5 bucks (for Tim Horton's
) plus costs of money transfer/fees. Not sure if I cover an area? Just ask me. Payments possible via Paypal, Wire, etc. PM me for details or help.==========================
Edits made to this post:
1/27/2012 - created original post
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