GENUINE WILL HUNT PROFESSIONAL 3/4 SNOOKER CUE & Cue Craft Ally Case.

[nlm247]

Just 1 question Crispian , how do you know they're from Thailand, not China?

[Stupree]

Not sure where I stand on this one really....but can we just leave Dave Coutts alone so he can finish off my cues please

[crispian jones]

Just 1 question Crispian , how do you know they're from Thailand, not China?

Easy enoghf question to answer - ive bought some myself

[crispian jones]

i cant put across my argument without using a cue maker as an example so i will !

if it was found that jp was polishing off thai cues (which i dont think for 1 minute he is as he would not need a
team to do that ) then what a few people are saying here is that "feida" would be liable to refund all his previous
customers ?

Bull sh*t - only the guy who puts the badge in can be accounted for those actions !

i am not trying to start an argument with any of you guys here, obviously there is always going to be a minority
who differ in opinions, but i just dont see how anyone can be held responsible for anothers actions

[pottr]

i am not trying to start an argument with any of you guys here, obviously there is always going to be a minority
who differ in opinions, but i just dont see how anyone can be held responsible for anothers actions

Because he 'as the seller' stated that the cue was made in it's entirety by Will Hunt. Even though he didn't know it wasn't he still represented the item as genuine. Ignorance does not excuse the mistake that was made.

I am certain he never intended to pull a fast one and genuinely has been a victim of circumstance himself.

In this instance the person who purchased from Dave can't have a grievance as any concern he had over the cue should have been raised long before now.

if it was found that jp was polishing off thai cues (which i dont think for 1 minute he is as he would not need a
team to do that ) then what a few people are saying here is that "feida" would be liable to refund all his previous
customers ?

Well, that would depend on how the cretin fedia listed the item. If he claimed it was made completely by JP (as MR coutts did with this WH cue) then consumer law dictates that on any evidence that the product has been misrepresented, ie not as described. Any purchaser is entitled to a full refund.

The character of the seller, past actions, intent to deceive has nothing to so with it. The law is clear.

Fit for purpose, to last for a reasonable length of time, as described and of satisfactory quality.

It doesn't mention whether or not the seller is a decent bloke or not. Which Dave absolutely must be by the way. People I have spoken to who have met him says he always goes above and beyond when talking about snooker cues. I would not hesitate in dealing with him. Even with this oversight.

Lets face it, that's all this was... a simple oversight that anyone could have made.

Fedia, x21573 or whatever he is known as now is an absolute con merchant. I wouldn't deal with him for a stick of gum.

[crispian jones]

[QUOTE=pottr;694399]Because he 'as the seller' stated that the cue was made in it's entirety by Will Hunt. Even though he didn't know it wasn't he still represented the item as genuine. Ignorance does not excuse the mistake that was made.

ok so what now then ? maybe dave should sell all his tervor white, mike wooldridge, robin cook, john parris, tony glover, pearodon,
and a good few other cues as "possibly handmade cues" at maybe half the price just incase ?

most cuemakers here in the uk deal solely with there own cues, which is a choice made by each, dave is a little different, he is a
cuemaker with his own brand, he also has a shop that is full of cues from other makers, in fact im sure he has at least 50 odd cues
in his shop at any given time, all of these cues have surly been bought in good faith, dave has cues from trevor, mike, parris, cook, glover, peradon and may other barnds including cues form asia, now it would be impossible (and rude) to visit each and every
cue maker just to ask the question "is this handmade"?

as i said in a previous reply, i truly believe we all put our faith in people in general from time to time,
and sometimes we just get **** on, but thats just life

[pottr]

ok so what now then ? maybe dave should sell all his tervor white, mike wooldridge, robin cook, john parris, tony glover, pearodon, and a good few other cues as "possibly handmade cues" at maybe half the price just incase ?

To be honest, I couldn't care less if he gives them away pal. I only got involved with the thread to state what the law dictates in this situation and a couple have taken it personal.

I think I even said right from the off how much I admire Mr Coutts for his knowledge and enthusiasm.

all of these cues have surly been bought in good faith

I understand and agree but ignorance is not a valid excuse when you're running a business. I run a business. It's my responsibility to know the required laws, particularly when there is a problem with a service I provide and charge for. Dave clearly agrees as he's held his hands up and stated he will change is website information.

as i said in a previous reply, i truly believe we all put our faith in people in general from time to time,
and sometimes we just get **** on, but thats just life

Can't echo that sentiment enough. It's a shame WH isn't on the forum. He's the one who's mugged Dave off and in turn contributed into making Dave look foolish on this single matter.

[crispian jones]

I think I even said right from the off how much I admire Mr Coutts for his knowledge and enthusiasm.

good point



Can't echo that sentiment enough. It's a shame WH isn't on the forum. He's the one who's mugged Dave off and in turn contributed into making Dave look foolish on this single matter.[/QUOTE]

again good point

[cally]

What's all this fuss about, we knew last year (or so) that they weren't made by will in whole, maybe not concrete at the time but we knew didn't we....

[MikeWooldridge]

jesus h christ! not been on here much recently but just stumbled on this. talk about witch hunt...

i'm gonna weigh in here with a resounding 'LEAVE DAVE COUTTS ALONE'.

dave is a top top guy. i have never met a more honest stand up bloke. and a fantastic craftsman in his own right.

dave and louise run a business selling cues. if will hunt delivered cues he said he made then they will advertise as such.

regardless, will hunt has developed a superb reputation for quality. if he chooses to manufacture or part manufacture overseas, then that's his choice. it is his brand name and reputation that is at stake.

all you, as the consumer, have to decide is whether you trust the quality of this brand. if you do, you spend the money.

i've never seen jp in anything but a smart shirt. be it in pictures, videos, or in his shop. i doubt he has ever even done any work on a cue but i couldn't care less and neither should you. he is running his business and delivering the quality he wants. same as will hunt.

and the same as dave coutts in marketing a premium brand. it's business, people. deal with it.

if you insist on knowing the ins and outs of a ducks ar*e, getting pictures sent at every stage of manufacture (cos in some way it makes you feel like you're in control), then so be it. there are plenty of cuemakers who will gladly do this for you.

whether you end up with the overall level of quality you initially expected is another question.

bottom line - you want a will hunt cue today, you buy what is being sold under will hunt's brand (and who's to know what work was actually done by will on the original ones from the 80's?)

let it lie people, it's clear will hunt is manufacturing overseas, the need to continue 'blaming' dave coutts is ridiculous.

[crispian jones]

jesus h christ! not been on here much recently but just stumbled on this. talk about witch hunt...

i'm gonna weigh in here with a resounding 'LEAVE DAVE COUTTS ALONE'.

dave is a top top guy. i have never met a more honest stand up bloke. and a fantastic craftsman in his own right.

dave and louise run a business selling cues. if will hunt delivered cues he said he made then they will advertise as such.

regardless, will hunt has developed a superb reputation for quality. if he chooses to manufacture or part manufacture overseas, then that's his choice. it is his brand name and reputation that is at stake.

all you, as the consumer, have to decide is whether you trust the quality of this brand. if you do, you spend the money.

i've never seen jp in anything but a smart shirt. be it in pictures, videos, or in his shop. i doubt he has ever even done any work on a cue but i couldn't care less and neither should you. he is running his business and delivering the quality he wants. same as will hunt.

and the same as dave coutts in marketing a premium brand. it's business, people. deal with it.

if you insist on knowing the ins and outs of a ducks ar*e, getting pictures sent at every stage of manufacture (cos in some way it makes you feel like you're in control), then so be it. there are plenty of cuemakers who will gladly do this for you.

whether you end up with the overall level of quality you initially expected is another question.

bottom line - you want a will hunt cue today, you buy what is being sold under will hunt's brand (and who's to know what work was actually done by will on the original ones from the 80's?)

let it lie people, it's clear will hunt is manufacturing overseas, the need to continue 'blaming' dave coutts is ridiculous.

Good speach

[willtyson]

jesus h christ! not been on here much recently but just stumbled on this. talk about witch hunt...

i'm gonna weigh in here with a resounding 'LEAVE DAVE COUTTS ALONE'.

dave is a top top guy. i have never met a more honest stand up bloke. and a fantastic craftsman in his own right.

dave and louise run a business selling cues. if will hunt delivered cues he said he made then they will advertise as such.

regardless, will hunt has developed a superb reputation for quality. if he chooses to manufacture or part manufacture overseas, then that's his choice. it is his brand name and reputation that is at stake.

all you, as the consumer, have to decide is whether you trust the quality of this brand. if you do, you spend the money.

i've never seen jp in anything but a smart shirt. be it in pictures, videos, or in his shop. i doubt he has ever even done any work on a cue but i couldn't care less and neither should you. he is running his business and delivering the quality he wants. same as will hunt.

and the same as dave coutts in marketing a premium brand. it's business, people. deal with it.

if you insist on knowing the ins and outs of a ducks ar*e, getting pictures sent at every stage of manufacture (cos in some way it makes you feel like you're in control), then so be it. there are plenty of cuemakers who will gladly do this for you.

whether you end up with the overall level of quality you initially expected is another question.

bottom line - you want a will hunt cue today, you buy what is being sold under will hunt's brand (and who's to know what work was actually done by will on the original ones from the 80's?)

let it lie people, it's clear will hunt is manufacturing overseas, the need to continue 'blaming' dave coutts is ridiculous.

Here here, thread closed now please lol... and someone please let the poor fellow who's trying to sell his cue sell it please!

[paddybhoy30]

As long as the price reflects all the hard work that will hunt never put in.

[pottr]

Here here, thread closed now please lol... and someone please let the poor fellow who's trying to sell his cue sell it please!

That's just the point... The poor lad is under the impression he is selling a:

'GENUINE WILL HUNT PROFESSIONAL 3/4 SNOOKER CUE & Cue Craft Ally Case.'

[eaoin11]

[QUOTE=MikeWooldridge;694439]
i've never seen jp in anything but a smart shirt. be it in pictures, videos, or in his shop. i doubt he has ever even done any work on a cue but i couldn't care less and neither should you. he is running his business and delivering the quality he wants. same as will hunt.

I think the one thing lacking in all of these threads is depth of insight and imagination. I've been wanting to say something for ages and will take your JP comment as an invitation.

Now we finally have it out in the open that some cuemakers are having at least part of their cues made in asia. No issues their for me at all, and it's old news.

But it shouldn't be a big step to realise that Will Hunt wasn't the one who went to the huge trouble of setting up a workshop in Asia capable of producing the quality required (he's only sold a handful this way so far). In my opinion, it is highly likely that there is a group of UK cuemakers/sellers supplied by Asia - based workshops set up and/or owned by one UK cuemaker.

But I agree that it makes no real difference to the quality or the value of the product at all to the customer, on the contrary.

And I APPLAUD Dave for taking steps to maintain the integrity of his business by being open about how he sources his cues. He deserves to make a living from his trade and he has had to adapt to circumstances in the industry that he can't control. And the Will Hunt cues are still good value in IMO.

My speculation is from info that's been available here over the last four or five years. Closed threads, similarities in products, various connections etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like all of these makers and their cues, but I hate the pathetically long period of time it takes for TSF's general perception of the industry to align with reality. This misalignment is the cause of threads that hurt reputations.

Lets just have it all out and get on with producing and buying the best cues made by the most talented craftsmen whether they happen to be in the UK, Asia or elsewhere. Quality is all that matters.