GENUINE WILL HUNT PROFESSIONAL 3/4 SNOOKER CUE & Cue Craft Ally Case.

[willtyson]

I see your point Dean, just because Coutts sells them though doesn't mean that he's the one that should be getting problems because of it. Just my thoughts anyway...:devilish:

[DeanH]

Agree there.
I am not a lawyer of selling things and "in good faith" and all that...


just glad that my kids never were into Findus and Tesco cheep burgers

[pottr]

I see your point Dean, just because Coutts sells them though doesn't mean that he's the one that should be getting problems because of it. Just my thoughts anyway...

The law of the land is quite clear that the seller bares all responsibility.

[louise sheldon]

The law of the land is quite clear that the seller bares all responsibility.

if that is the case, then there are a lot of us guilty as like me you are unaware of the true origins of some of the cues that are purchased, all i was trying to do is to sell good cues to the best of my knowledge and since this debate first arouse last year, i have learnt otherwise on several makes which puts me between a rock and a hard place, and is it down to every person on here that is selling a cue to know exactly the origin of the cue? as basically in effect they are the seller and therefore mis selling if thats what you are acussing me of.

i can do without the s**t stirers on here that have nothing better to do than cause trouble when all i am trying to do is make a living and keep the trade of the traditional way of cue making alive

[Tred]

if that is the case, then there are a lot of us guilty as like me you are unaware of the true origins of some of the cues that are purchased, all i was trying to do is to sell good cues to the best of my knowledge and since this debate first arouse last year, i have learnt otherwise on several makes which puts me between a rock and a hard place, and is it down to every person on here that is selling a cue to know exactly the origin of the cue? as basically in effect they are the seller and therefore mis selling if thats what you are acussing me of.

i can do without the s**t stirers on here that have nothing better to do than cause trouble when all i am trying to do is make a living and keep the trade of the traditional way of cue making alive

Again, I find your choice of words alarming and unprofessional.

I am not a "s**t stirrer", nor is anyone else who's commented in this thread. As I said earlier - we're entitled to seek the truth. You claim to know the truth, but haven't given a plausible reason why you shouldn't share it with us.

Many of us use this forum to make private purchases and sales of 2nd hand cues, we all accept that there's a certain amount of risk associated with any "unseen" purchase of this nature (although I must say that I've been 100% satisfied with the purchases I've made here). The forum is a good place for anyone to find out more about a particular cue, and also about the "dodgy" ones that appear regularly on ebay.

That is completely different to selling brand-new cues as a business, which is what you do. No one is questioning your integrity as a cuemaker, but by selling other maker's cues you have to assume some responsibility when things go wrong...

[crispian jones]

here we go again with another crock of sh*t thread


it seems everytime i coment to threads here i alienate someone so f*ck it i will say it how i see it ! (only my opinion-dont sue me)


I have been to daves place a good few times, and to be fair his work and business plan is great, he charges what can be argued
as a high price to some people for his handmade cues, but what he also offers is an alternative to the guys who wont spend that
much on a cue, he has (like anyone who bought a will hunt cue from dave) invested his own money in a massive stock of what
he believes are quality cues to suit every pocket !!!! now how the fu*k could dave possibly know for sure that all the cues are
100% as badge states ? just like me you or your uncle when buying a cue ! he puts his faith in people, we all do !

As for it being daves sole responsiblilty for opening "a can of worms" on the cue making industry, it is not !
everyone carries there own risks of getting cought out or grilled on forums when these things happen

another point to make is this - there is so much secrecy in the cuemaking industry, that although lots of different makers talk
to each other regularly, they probably wouldnt ask to visit each others workshops as they know the answer !
and if any of these guys do use "imported cues" then the secrecy is so high that i bet there wifes dont know (never mind dave).

chineese imported cues? - your wrong, there thai cues anyway jsut incase i offend anyone on this subject, there are
cuemaker in china That are equal in price and exceed parris prices so not all crap

my summery of dave

this thread seems to have quickly focused on dave and whether he should have known the full background of these cues
origionaly, im sure lesson learnt on this one

But to be fair, as to the "can of worms/horse meat scandle" that will one day reapear no doubt, you have a cue maker in dave
who is the total opposite of what you have been moaning about ! (secrecy) as his door is open, he is friendly, has good coffee,
pleanty of experience in what matters !

chin up dave, dont let the minority pi*s you off

PS. i think your set up, work ethics, cues, stock ect is fantastic, and i can see that all this has taken so much work over the
years to achive, by you and louise, and i take my hat off to you !!!!!

TOP GUY

[culraven]

Will Hunt is a trade name just like any other, and I would not expect every cue bearing his name to be made by him, and i would not expect a seller to know the exact origin of a cue he was selling (buyer beware always applies)
That said we have at least 2 people on this thread who have been told by Dave that these cues are hand made by Will Hunt, Dave has since clarified that he only found this not to be the case quite recently, and to be fair has taken steps to inform new buyers of the issue. Any buyer missold one of these cues should be entitled to a full refund as Dave stated something which was in essence a lie, all be it unknowingly.
There should be no critisism of Dave as he is as much a victim and should also be entitled to a full refund from Will Hunt, who by the sounds of it shoulders the blame.

[snooker warrior]

I think most people know that JP does not make cues himself anymore, that is not the issue here. the issue is that the cue(s) were sold as "handmade by Will himself" and that is misleading and inaccurate.
Findus, horse and beef comes to mind.
If you buy a JP, they are not sold as made by JP himself, but by his company and employees. If you buy a cue saying handmade by whoever then you should expact that person to be involved in major way in the cue's creation.
There have been many other threads about what constitutes the level of "handmade", "made", "customised", finished, etc, etc, etc all the way to growing the tree in the first place

You are right that a cue that plays well, etc,; but if you buy a cue knowing it was made in a factory in China, then fine; but buying a cue sold as a handmade by a known cuemaker and it is no such thing, that edges onto fraud

People are also assuming will hunt made his own cues to start with !! That may well be the case , but he may well just have been putting the finishing touches to cues or shafts from elsewhere ! Not one person has questioned the quality of the cues so they really should take it for what it is , a top quality cue, as mentioned in this thread the price kind of gives you a clue in itself ,

[DeanH]

Hi buddy

People are also assuming will hunt made his own cues to start with !!

maybe so, maybe not - but the inference was there or reported to have been there

That may well be the case , but he may well just have been putting the finishing touches to cues or shafts from elsewhere !

I have a feeling that he did not even add any oil to any of them.

Not one person has questioned the quality of the cues so they really should take it for what it is , a top quality cue, as mentioned in this thread the price kind of gives you a clue in itself ,

you are right, the quality seems to be there, IIRC ADR and Dave have both said that they appear to be very nice cues indeed.

[willtyson]

Crispian- you've hit the nail on the head...

[cueman]

Dave Coutts website is down now! I wonder whether this is a direct result of all the accusations being made and maybe he has taken the decision to take his site down for personal reasons. Wouldn't blame him to be fair, I think people are being a little harsh here. Sure I know that some of what has gone on is not perfect by any means but the cue industry has always been a lot like that, as others mentioned a lot of secrecy and honesty in short supply at times, especially where materials have been sourced and in some cases cues being part made/finished then badged up as something else. If people stopped looking at the cues as a source of investment or bothered too much by who made it and used it for actually playing with a lot of this wouldn't be worth talking about.

Just as I was typing this his site is back, probably just a technical hitch. Still stand by the rest of my post though.

[rob s]

Daves website is working fine mate, also he has amended the will hunt cues to say: "Will Hunt cues are part made to Will's specifications and then finished off by Will himself."

[pottr]

Will Hunt is a trade name just like any other, and I would not expect every cue bearing his name to be made by him, and i would not expect a seller to know the exact origin of a cue he was selling (buyer beware always applies)
That said we have at least 2 people on this thread who have been told by Dave that these cues are hand made by Will Hunt, Dave has since clarified that he only found this not to be the case quite recently, and to be fair has taken steps to inform new buyers of the issue. Any buyer missold one of these cues should be entitled to a full refund as Dave stated something which was in essence a lie, all be it unknowingly.
There should be no critisism of Dave as he is as much a victim and should also be entitled to a full refund from Will Hunt, who by the sounds of it shoulders the blame.

Culraven's post sums it up for me.

[crispian jones]

i see this is a very touchy subject, but it seems that the acusation of guys using these imported cues has been thrown around a fair few times in the past, now just imagine this is found to be true by any of them, then affectivly what your saying is that every guy who has passed one of these cues on whether it be private or ebay or here on the forum they become as dave is "the seller" ! so as so would need to offer a full refund ?

the fact is that a fair few of you guys bue cues pretty often, now there comes a time (as ive experienced myself) that you are slightly diserpointed with a cue, for whatever reason ? so what do you do ? burn it on the fire ? snap it ? use it as a broom stick ?
i doubt it, more than likely it goes on ebay !

so i geuss reputation is what it is all about in my eyes, and that shows consistency in the cues provided and gives piece of mind when parting with cash deposits ect

[sanman]

Dave Coutts has care of duty to his customers as much as Will Hunt has care of duty to him.