New special elk master tips as used by Ronnie O'sullivan

[thelongbomber]

I mean if they could improve on the consistency of the original elk then why has it taken them so long to make the improvement.

Probably cause they were making so much money selling their standard tips and only recently have been losing market share to better competitors and newer tips and they started to realize that maybe they should do something about it. The whole laminated and secondary tip market could have been killed off for good if they kept innovating.

[Terry Davidson]

Probably cause they were making so much money selling their standard tips and only recently have been losing market share to better competitors and newer tips and they started to realize that maybe they should do something about it. The whole laminated and secondary tip market could have been killed off for good if they kept innovating.

I think that's exactly what happened although Tweetens does tend to concentrate on pool but the management was opposed to laminated tips as they couldn't understand how a layered tip with glue between the layers could be any better than their composite Elk Master tips. I believe the loss in market share sort of gave them a kick about the same way the American auto makers got a kick in the butt from the Japanese auto makers.

Terry

[Phil C]

I think that's exactly what happened although Tweetens does tend to concentrate on pool but the management was opposed to laminated tips as they couldn't understand how a layered tip with glue between the layers could be any better than their composite Elk Master tips. I believe the loss in market share sort of gave them a kick about the same way the American auto makers got a kick in the butt from the Japanese auto makers.

Terry

Couldn't of said it better.

[Neil Taperell]

Got mine this morning . Excellent service from Coutts . Will get one put on tomorrow .

[DeanH]

Yep got mine this morning.
Shall put one on tonight and try out tomorrow with some friends.

[the montrealer]

Yep got mine this morning.
Shall put one on tonight and try out tomorrow with some friends.

HI DEANH Let us know how they play ordered some last week can not wait to try them

Cheers Leonard

[DeanH]

I put one on last night and must say it went on very easily. Trimmed neatly and consistantly (sorry ) considering they all felt very hard, that is to say that I got the same shavings with the same pressure (not much) all around the edge and got a good flush edge (no mushroom for me). I used what I call the "TW technique" (i.e. the one from his vid) Stanley knife sliding upwards up the ferrule. There was no need to turn the cue upside down and slice downwards onto a cutting board as I put a 10mm onto a 9.5mm ferrule.
Sanding into shape was ok, as you would expect from an Elk but without all the blue bits for the wife to complain about
The new tip took the chalk (spruce) nicely but you cant tell till in action.
I am playing tonight so will see what it feels and plays like, etc.
I am the first to admit but I am not the greatest tip fitter and it took me about 20-30 mins in all and quietly pleased with the result.

[vmax4steve]

I think that's exactly what happened although Tweetens does tend to concentrate on pool but the management was opposed to laminated tips as they couldn't understand how a layered tip with glue between the layers could be any better than their composite Elk Master tips. I believe the loss in market share sort of gave them a kick about the same way the American auto makers got a kick in the butt from the Japanese auto makers.

Terry

Not quite the same though Tel, the elkmaster tips are top notch, always have been and there really is no reason for anyone to go elsewhere unless they have been fooled by marketing and fashion or are one of those berks who blame their tip when playing badly.

To say that quality control was lacking for Elkmaster tips in the past is wrong, they provided tips of different feel, admittedly all in the same box, but you only had to test each tip with your thumbnail to find the ones you wanted. With Elks if you had the nous to buy a box of 25 or 50, find the ones that suited you, harden the ones you found to be too soft or sell off the ones you found to be too hard there were no problems at all.

Other companies simply saw this as a gap (that didn't really exist) in the market that they could fill by supplying tips of varying hardness already sorted, while claiming better performance from their product and charging a very premium price.

Ronnie has proved that Elkmasters are as good or better than anything else and Tweetens have now moved to exploit his name simply by sorting the tips themselves, not covering them in blue chalk so the customer can notice the difference and marketing them as premium O'Sullivan tips to try to claw back their lost market share.

Anyone buying these tips are simply showing themselves to be open to snake oil salesman. I shall continue with the normal Elks and sort them myself, shove my thumbnail into the side of each one to find the soft ones and fit the others on my mates cues who like harder tips like I've always done, for the price of a pint.

There are going to be an awful lot of people who buy these tips, find out that that 50 or 100 break is still out of reach and then look for some other magic bullet.

[Terry Davidson]

vmax:

I had some long talks and emails with 'Skip' who owns Tweetens (around about 18 months ago). He agreed with me that out of a box of 50 Elk Masters there were usually 20 or so which were 'spongy' as I call them or where I could easily put my thumbnail into them. In addition, no matter how hard they were they still needed to be re-shaped after a bit of use however they did play well.

I've found with the laminated tips (I use either Talisman S or Pheonix MH) they will last forever and I have never had to re-shape them. For instance right now I have had a Talisman on my cue for around 6 months and there is still plenty of tip left and no re-shaping required.

At the time I was talking to Skip he sent me a box of Spruce chalk and with that a bag with 20 green tips and he said these were experimental and meant specifically for snooker (like the Spruce). I tried the tips and I found they were generally a bit harder than the average Elk Master blue ones and they also played very well HOWEVER I did have one tip which was 'spongy' and just shredded when I started to file it down (I don't cut tips and just use a set of 3 files to shape).

I did tell Skip about this tip that shredded although it was one out of about 5 that I tried out. I still have 10 of these tips in my tip bag but I still prefer the Talisman or Phoenix.

The question is...have Tweetens improved their quality control for these tips where a buyer won't get up to 40% 'spongy' tips? I guess we will have to see since at the price these new tips are I sure hope they have (and I would assume they would stand behind the quality of the tips too).

Terry

[cueman]

I'm going to have to disagree with vmax above who stated that quality control or manufacturing went downhill is wrong.

I've been using elks since the 80's and by using I mean boxes of the things not just buying the odd one or a pack of 3 from a sports shop.
I've tipped my local clubs rack cues and customer cues for years and they have always bought elks in various sizes, 9mm all the way up to 13mm for the pool cues.

I saw a definitive drop off in quality around early to mid 2000's where as Terry described above it became quite normal to find around 1/3 or more of tips be spongey or as he put it shredding because the fibres were not properly compressed or glued properly.
This wasn't a plan or done on purpose by tweeten, it was simply a big drop in quality. A soft or medium or hard tip can be found in box of 50 but these were simply unusable. As soon as you trim them they fall apart and filing them or using sandpaper to shape them they just didn't feel as though they could be used as the fibres just stuck out, no amount of compressing them would make these better.

I have seen an improvement of late but still not to the level of pre 2000 when nearly every tip was good enough.

[vmax4steve]

I haven't noticed any drop off and I also buy boxes of them, have been doing so since I started playing thirty years ago.
There are counterfeits on the market and maybe the quality of these have had an effect on the Elks reputation.
Ronnie has stuck with them and so have I and many others. There are always going to be some that lose their integrity and fibres come loose when being shaped or played with, but how does a quality control person on the factory floor weed those out if they don't show to be so until fitted to a cue.

I like the soft Elks that I find in the boxes I buy and I don't want them to be deliberately made harder.

[Neil Taperell]

Just had my tip fitted at Parris , and they guy in the shop [ Paul ...i think ] said that he has noticed that the quality of Elkmasters has dipped in the last few years .

[G30 MC]

Just had my tip fitted at Parris , and they guy in the shop [ Paul ...i think ] said that he has noticed that the quality of Elkmasters has dipped in the last few years .

Hi Neil, Did MrP himself have any thought's on these new type Elk's I have some on order and curious to how they play compared to the one's i sent to you.

[Neil Taperell]

Mr P doesn't work on Tuesday George . I played with it tonight and it is slightly firmer than a standard Elk . I like them ......but it didn't make me play like Ronnie though .....i want my money back

[Chappy5]

I like them ......but it didn't make me play like Ronnie though

Well bugger that i am not buying any then!!!