2 inch balls?

[jonny66]

I have one of those training balls that are advertised all over this site, took it to the club and it's noticeably bigger than all the balls there, I would say easily 1/16 of an inch. The table there is very old, I think Joe Davis once played an exhibition on it, so I suppose they could just be worn down? Or the club were being cheap and bought a set of 2 inch balls, I don't know. I'm not too keen on them to be honest, they fit in the pockets better but they're harder to aim properly. Were smaller balls ever standard for snooker?

[Terry Davidson]

You may have a set of old super crystalate balls that are worn down. The diameter has always been 2-1/16" for the past hundred years or so for both billiards and snooker. If you're talking the 1950's or whatever maybe you have a set of ivory balls. If that's the case offer to replace them with Aramith Tournament Champion balls and keep the old ivory ones and sell them. They used to wear down all the time and the solution was to shoot another elephant.

I've seen a set of 18yr old supers which were well worn down and I've also seen a set of Aramith balls where the cueball is well worn down and VERY light

[Wazza180]

Sounds like old worn balls.. if not could be just a bad set.. it happens

[jonny66]

Would new balls react better? I seem to be able to spin that training ball about much easier than the club one.

[DandyA]

You may have a set of old super crystalate balls that are worn down. The diameter has always been 2-1/16" for the past hundred years or so for both billiards and snooker. If you're talking the 1950's or whatever maybe you have a set of ivory balls. If that's the case offer to replace them with Aramith Tournament Champion balls and keep the old ivory ones and sell them. They used to wear down all the time and the solution was to shoot another elephant.

I've seen a set of 18yr old supers which were well worn down and I've also seen a set of Aramith balls where the cueball is well worn down and VERY light

Terry, sorry to be pedantic but the current World Snooker rules are below ... so 2 1/16" balls (52.3875mm) are outside the specification, the minimum allowed is 52.45mm and the maximum 52.55mm ... does anyone know when the rules became metric?

2. Balls
(a) The balls shall be of an approved composition and shall each have a diameter of 52.5mm with a tolerance of +/- 0.05mm;
(b) they shall be of equal weight and the difference between the heaviest ball and the lightest ball should be no more than 3g; and
(c) a ball or set of balls may be changed by agreement between the players or on a decision by the referee.

[Terry Davidson]

Terry, sorry to be pedantic but the current World Snooker rules are below ... so 2 1/16" balls (52.3875mm) are outside the specification, the minimum allowed is 52.45mm and the maximum 52.55mm ... does anyone know when the rules became metric?

2. Balls
(a) The balls shall be of an approved composition and shall each have a diameter of 52.5mm with a tolerance of +/- 0.05mm;
(b) they shall be of equal weight and the difference between the heaviest ball and the lightest ball should be no more than 3g; and
(c) a ball or set of balls may be changed by agreement between the players or on a decision by the referee.

I shall measure mine with a digital caliper and see what the 1G balls are. I had thought the metric number was equal to 2-1/16" but it's actually bigger according to your calculations. It will be interesting to see what my caliper says

[mythman69]

I shall measure mine with a digital caliper and see what the 1G balls are. I had thought the metric number was equal to 2-1/16" but it's actually bigger according to your calculations. It will be interesting to see what my caliper says

I took my set of 1G balls down to the club and was told they look bigger than the normal old set. I didn't believe it but when I put 2 old reds around the 1G red ball it was bigger. I was wondering if my set were fakes or the old balls had worn so I will be interested to hear what your calliper measurement is Terry.

[DeanH]

a couple of points if I may:
1. Aramith sell there balls as 2 1/16" and not as 52.5mm
2. Aramith do sell 2" sets in the lower (lighter) range of balls.
3. The old rules stipulated a ball diameter range from 2 1/16" to 2 3/32"
4. In the old old days with ivory balls that would be sent off for regrinding back to round, the SMALLEST allowed size was 2 1/16". Any ball under that size was scrapped as a playing ball.

my view on this thread is the balls in the club are probably the lower range of balls and where always 2".
The size stipulated in the rules was a rough conversion from 2 1/16" to millimetres and instead of saying 52.387mm they rounded up to 52.5mm with the tolerance being 0.05mm (which I think was a typo and they meant +/-0.5mm, giving a range size of 52.0-53.0mm)


just checked my TCs and they are spot on 2 1/16" and yes under 52.5mm (just over 52.3mm being only 1/10mm accuracy)

[Terry Davidson]

Terry, sorry to be pedantic but the current World Snooker rules are below ... so 2 1/16" balls (52.3875mm) are outside the specification, the minimum allowed is 52.45mm and the maximum 52.55mm ... does anyone know when the rules became metric?

2. Balls
(a) The balls shall be of an approved composition and shall each have a diameter of 52.5mm with a tolerance of +/- 0.05mm;
(b) they shall be of equal weight and the difference between the heaviest ball and the lightest ball should be no more than 3g; and
(c) a ball or set of balls may be changed by agreement between the players or on a decision by the referee.

Well I measured my 1G balls with my digital caliper. A couple of problems though...my caliper only has one decimal point in mm but 2 decimal points in inches. So first I converted 2-1/16" to a decimal number and got 2.0625". When I measured with the caliper I got 52.3mm and when I switched it to inches I got 2.06".

The other problem was ensuring I had the largest part of the ball in the caliper but what I did was moved the ball back and forth inside the jaws and I got the 52.3mm.

Even though the rules do state 52.45mm to 52.55mm I think that has to be incorrect as I doubt Aramith/Saluc would supply smaller balls, however mine are definitely right at 52.3xx and not 54.45mm. So can anyone explain this?

As the old rules stated 2-16" (or 2.0625) that does work out closer to 52.35mm. When I do a conversion of 2.0625" I get 52.385mm but my 1G balls are definitely smaller

[DeanH]

Terry - I think you have found the same as my set in the previous post.

[Redphex]

Saluc print the resin density on the ATC's box. it's 1,87.
Assuming the density is a stable value, we can calculate the ball's size from it's weight.

A standard ATC ball with 52.5mm should weight 141,6831289 grams
The outer limits for 52.55 and 52.45mm make for 142,0883235 and 141,2787053 grams.

It's notable that span is far tighter than the 3g variance officially allowed within the rules.
With the ^3 exponent in conversion from weight to diameter, it's also probably more exact to calculate the average diameter from the weight than measuring with calipers.

[jonny66]

So what are people's thoughts about playing with 2 inch balls on a full size table? Pros and cons?

[Terry Davidson]

Saluc print the resin density on the ATC's box. it's 1,87.
Assuming the density is a stable value, we can calculate the ball's size from it's weight.

A standard ATC ball with 52.5mm should weight 141,6831289 grams
The outer limits for 52.55 and 52.45mm make for 142,0883235 and 141,2787053 grams.

It's notable that span is far tighter than the 3g variance officially allowed within the rules.
With the ^3 exponent in conversion from weight to diameter, it's also probably more exact to calculate the average diameter from the weight than measuring with calipers.

Although I understand it, I guess you're saying the only way to determine the actual diameter of a ball is by it's weight? I know across my set all balls are between 141gm and a little less than 142gm, the worst being 142.7gms (this is assuming my digital jeweler's digital scale is correct.

Now we have the problem that we're assuming the resin density is always constant but as it's a mixed formula that might not be so and it could be 1.8699999 or something.

I think the only way is to actually measure the balls with a more accurate device than my digital caliper. But then again, who cares? In answer to the question above, the smaller the balls the easier they are to pocket but if you play in tournaments you would have a hell of a time switching to 1G balls plus a smaller diameter automatically assumes a lighter weight.

[DandyA]

a couple of points if I may:
1. Aramith sell there balls as 2 1/16" and not as 52.5mm
2. Aramith do sell 2" sets in the lower (lighter) range of balls.
3. The old rules stipulated a ball diameter range from 2 1/16" to 2 3/32"
4. In the old old days with ivory balls that would be sent off for regrinding back to round, the SMALLEST allowed size was 2 1/16". Any ball under that size was scrapped as a playing ball.

my view on this thread is the balls in the club are probably the lower range of balls and where always 2".
The size stipulated in the rules was a rough conversion from 2 1/16" to millimetres and instead of saying 52.387mm they rounded up to 52.5mm with the tolerance being 0.05mm (which I think was a typo and they meant +/-0.5mm, giving a range size of 52.0-53.0mm)


just checked my TCs and they are spot on 2 1/16" and yes under 52.5mm (just over 52.3mm being only 1/10mm accuracy)

does Saluc say their Aramith TC's or 1G's are 2 1/16" ? I had a quick look on their website and couldn't find anything about it (or weight for that matter) ... I doubt the +/-0.05mm in the official rules is a typo for two reasons (a) it's a huge gaff and (b) +/-0.5mm (ie 1mm in total) is one hell of a permissible range across a set of balls ...

[DeanH]

you could be right but I have never seen a set of Aramith TCs being sold as 52.5mm but always in inches

the old permissible range of size was 1/32" which is by my rough maths approx. 0.8mm so not to far out.