arguement about balls

[luke-h]

Not quite following you there Luke, what balls have you played with? I get new TCs, but then you say super crystalate then say you need a decent set of super crystalate said, sorry if I'm missing something.

sorry could have worded it better, i have been using the clubs super crystalate, or what i'd assume to be, for quite a while occasionally asking to borrow their tournament champion balls,recently for fathers day my partner got me a set of tournament champions and ive been playing with those since.

i do like the tournament champion balls as they seem to move about better but i'd also agree they kick and bad contact more, the one i had yesterday was gross, how on earth it missed by that much il never know.

[itsnoteasy]

Just a guess but I reckon your club balls will be Aramith premier, not super crystalate ,but it is a guess.

[Geoff Large]

When I worked for John Hopkin in the 1980s we had a sales rep from BCE in who told us this story

When super Crystalate where taken over by BCE they got rid of the UK workforce and sold the Ball making machinery to Aramith , this was in the 1980s , the price for a set of crystalate balls at that time was around £60 to £70 a set .
Aramith then made the super crystalate ball under license for BCE who then inflated the price over the next 10 years above £100 I think they reached £120 and that was back in the late 1980s early 90s
BCE had given Aramith the crystalate recipe along with the machinery that they sold to them .
after 10 years the agreement with BCE expired , BCE tried to negotiate another 10 year contract for Aramith to continue the production of the super Crystalate balls , but Aramith refused to make them anymore .

what could BCE do ?

Nothing they had sold Aramith the machinery and had given them the secret recipe of Crystalate balls for FREE !

what did Aramith do , they started making their Tournament champion balls in the blue and gold boxes , and the recipe was the same as the Crystalate ball , they could not use the name Crystalate so they used the Tournament champion which became the top ball to use from there on in

So the tournament champion ball according to the sales rep is the same ball as the old crystalate , they may have altered the colouring slightly over the years , but they are the same ball as the Crystalate useing the same formula



I do not play the game but I have heard this story repeated many times over the 1980s /90s , and the sound of those clacking balls are very similar if you have a set of old crystalate and a new set of Aramith tournament then try it .

just thought I would throw this spanner in the works for people saying this ball is better than that ball .....lol

Now I do not know if the above is true,

but FACT is Aramith did produce the Crystallite ball for 10 years for BCE who had bought out Crystalate in the 1980s

. so make your own mind up

[markz]

Sounds more plausible Geoff than creating a brand new compound. Nice spanner lol

[itsnoteasy]

If that's true you can get a good set of SC balls for less than twenty quid, cheaper than the £120-180 they want for TCs or 1gs.

[itsnoteasy]

I think you are definitely right about how and when they were made Geoff, as the box on my SCs says made in England ( can't remember the company name) but it also says something about Saluc , so I'm guessing they have been made during some type of collaboration between the two companies.
looked it up on wiki, they say crystalate is based on bonzoline, super crystalate is a composite cast resin, so I take its bonzoline and other substances. The name super crystalate is still used by Aramith but the balls are actually phenolic resin, so if this is correct they are two different substances.

[luke-h]

Just a guess but I reckon your club balls will be Aramith premier, not super crystalate ,but it is a guess.

I play in an old conservative club and the balls are as old as time itself, ive even asked if they had boxes to the balls and the answer is no.

[itsnoteasy]

Ah! Can you weigh them, if they are 141/142 g they could be SCs, 128/129g premieres, but you could be right, they might even be crystalate and not super crystalate if they are quite old.

[luke-h]

Ah! Can you weigh them, if they are 141/142 g they could be SCs, 128/129g premieres, but you could be right, they might even be crystalate and not super crystalate if they are quite old.

well ones things for sure theyre definitely not the same size as my tc's quite a bit smaller maybe 2 inch because of how long theyve been there.

[vmax4steve]

When I worked for John Hopkin in the 1980s we had a sales rep from BCE in who told us this story

When super Crystalate where taken over by BCE they got rid of the UK workforce and sold the Ball making machinery to Aramith , this was in the 1980s , the price for a set of crystalate balls at that time was around £60 to £70 a set .
Aramith then made the super crystalate ball under license for BCE who then inflated the price over the next 10 years above £100 I think they reached £120 and that was back in the late 1980s early 90s
BCE had given Aramith the crystalate recipe along with the machinery that they sold to them .
after 10 years the agreement with BCE expired , BCE tried to negotiate another 10 year contract for Aramith to continue the production of the super Crystalate balls , but Aramith refused to make them anymore .

what could BCE do ?

Nothing they had sold Aramith the machinery and had given them the secret recipe of Crystalate balls for FREE !

what did Aramith do , they started making their Tournament champion balls in the blue and gold boxes , and the recipe was the same as the Crystalate ball , they could not use the name Crystalate so they used the Tournament champion which became the top ball to use from there on in

So the tournament champion ball according to the sales rep is the same ball as the old crystalate , they may have altered the colouring slightly over the years , but they are the same ball as the Crystalate useing the same formula

Can't see this as they had the patent and the trade name and had been making them for ten years. They also made phenolic resin balls badged as super crystalate, still do, so if they wanted to carry on making genuine super crystalate balls they could have done so.



I do not play the game but I have heard this story repeated many times over the 1980s /90s , and the sound of those clacking balls are very similar if you have a set of old crystalate and a new set of Aramith tournament then try it .

I do and the difference in sound is quite distinct, a sharper click to the genuine SC balls and hardly any kicks or bad contacts

just thought I would throw this spanner in the works for people saying this ball is better than that ball .....lol

Now I do not know if the above is true,

but FACT is Aramith did produce the Crystallite ball for 10 years for BCE who had bought out Crystalate in the 1980s

. so make your own mind up

The proof of the pudding is in the eating people, buy a set and see the difference.

[itsnoteasy]

well ones things for sure theyre definitely not the same size as my tc's quite a bit smaller maybe 2 inch because of how long theyve been there.

I read somewhere that when billiard tables pockets were 3 1/3 inch at the fall, they played with two inch balls, so they could be very old balls.( I will try and find the link) sorry the pockets were 3 1/4 inch, here's the link.
http://www.snookerheritage.co.uk/nor...snooker-balls/

[Catch 22]

Does anyone know if these are the super chrystalate balls

[itsnoteasy]

Is there nowhere on the box with a bit more info, I take it somone else made these and Riley just stick their name on them.

[Catch 22]

Got sent that pic by someone looking to sell them . I don't have them in front of me

[itsnoteasy]

I tried looking for them , the only other set I thought I had found were on Ireland eBay but the listing was gone when I went into them
This is just a pure guess and based on nothing but how I feel, but I would think they are cheap balls, first off, I don't think Riley's made them, just stuck their name on it, so they won't be fussed about the quality, second, most things signed by and endorsed by players always seem to be cheap mass produced tat to me( could be way off) third if they were decent quality and sold in numbers to clubs or were used in comps etc, why are they so hard to find on the web now? Fourth ,the big rosette with the endorsement looks over the top ,again an advertisement ploy, TCs or 1gs or super crystalate boxes I have seen don't shout about what they are ,and they are used at tournaments, just my thoughts on what I see, might give you something to think about, but if the person could give you the company that actually made them, you could find out a lot more about them.