Andy Travis messed up my cue

[Ninja.cues]

That's all fair game.
NIt sure why A.T. replied to my enquiry in that way, but we're all human.

Ultimately, you were the paying customer and the customer is ALWAYS right imo

Sorry but that americanism saying the customer is always right.....🤦🏾♂️
Sometimes they just see not but not saying it's in this case.

[vmax]

I think there white lines are part of the ebony as can come with white, purple and sometimes brown.

Very true, criticism from a person who knows nothing about timber and who wants jet black ebony. The jet black ebony is dyed, no doubt about that imo as I've never seen a natural piece that hasn't got flecks of colour in it. Those flecks of colour give it it's own identity, that's the same of all wood, and it's also the case that when planing and sanding across different timber the dust from one timber will meld and settle into the grain of other timbers used in the cue, that's part of the process and can be hidden by final finishing or left as it is.
I guess Andy left it as it was because ultimately it doesn't matter to a player who simply wants a good tool in his hands rather than someone who needs something perfect for whatever reason.

When one looks at Ronnie's cue one can see where the grain filler has gone where the cue rubs his chin, obviously it doesn't bother him but I'll bet thai_son 22 would have that re-finished every year, if he kept any cue that long that is.
The customer is obviously never right when needing a cue with a perfect finish, after all would one nit pick over the ash grain in a slate hammer handle that's otherwise a perfect tool for an experienced roofer ? This is why I never make cues to personal specs, 'can't please everyone so you have to please yourself' as Rick Nelson sang so if you don't like it then buy something else.

[Nifty50]

Vmax. Think I saw a post one time that Gabon ebony was the blackest but even that isn’t jet black. Need to paint or stain for jet black.

[vmax]

This morning I've just finished squaring off a ferrule and fitting a tip to a mate's TW cue. The ebony wasn't jet black, had very nice flecks of brown and purple in it and the tips of the splices weren't exactly level either, other than that a perfect tool for potting balls. He took a look at some of the cues I have for sale and asked me if I'd make him a cue to his own specs, I didn't hestitate in saying no, told him why and he accepted my reasons.

[vmax]

Vmax. Think I saw a post one time that Gabon ebony was the blackest but even that isn’t jet black. Need to paint or stain for jet black.

It's only the heartwood that's dark, the sapwood is white and changes colour the nearer to the heart of the log but it never gets truly black to the point where there's no other colour present. That's its beauty in my eyes otherwise it looks artificial like that ebonesey stuff one can get these days. Also it's a small tree and logs are rarely more than twelve inches in diameter, hence it's price and the reason why more of the log is now being used for cues, that stripey ebony is where it starts to change colour, very aesthetically pleasing for some and a price buster for cue makers who before used to throw it away and only use the dark heartwood.

[Secret_oath]

Absolutely thoroughly enjoyable reading vmax, thanks for the insight!

[thai_son22]

Very true, criticism from a person who knows nothing about timber and who wants jet black ebony. The jet black ebony is dyed, no doubt about that imo as I've never seen a natural piece that hasn't got flecks of colour in it. Those flecks of colour give it it's own identity, that's the same of all wood, and it's also the case that when planing and sanding across different timber the dust from one timber will meld and settle into the grain of other timbers used in the cue, that's part of the process and can be hidden by final finishing or left as it is.
I guess Andy left it as it was because ultimately it doesn't matter to a player who simply wants a good tool in his hands rather than someone who needs something perfect for whatever reason.

When one looks at Ronnie's cue one can see where the grain filler has gone where the cue rubs his chin, obviously it doesn't bother him but I'll bet thai_son 22 would have that re-finished every year, if he kept any cue that long that is.
The customer is obviously never right when needing a cue with a perfect finish, after all would one nit pick over the ash grain in a slate hammer handle that's otherwise a perfect tool for an experienced roofer ? This is why I never make cues to personal specs, 'can't please everyone so you have to please yourself' as Rick Nelson sang so if you don't like it then buy something else.

The issue with you is that because you think you know everything, you assume everyone else knows nothing. Whilst I agree with much of your posts on wide range of topics in the forum, your arrogance is somewhat obnoxious.

lets say i agree with your point about the ebony, it doesnt change the fact that it shouldnt have got to that stage in the first place.

Regarding your point about finish - I sent the cue off to a respected cue maker who actually made the point that the cue was bone dry was shocked at the state the cue had been returned to me.

Deep scratches (now sorted), bone dry (now sorted). The point about needing to even sand the ebony after inserting the joint - Andy wouldn't have had to do this if he had matched the grain of the maple even 'remotely' close. Even the said cuemaker said its shocking how off he is with aligning the grain whilst acknowledging that even though its difficult, Andy was was at least 5mm out (I measured) and that he shouldn't have even taken the job.

No it's no wonder he had to taper so much of the cue - because he aligned it so poorly that he had to straighten it out so much. Had he have been closer, he wouldn't have to go near the splices. Not to mention the marks he left from clamping too hard in the lathe (again, now sorted).

His work on my cue (not all other cues) is inept at best.

[thai_son22]

I think there white lines are part of the ebony as can come with white, purple and sometimes brown.

I'm not really going to comment on the work done..
Should have talked it through at least..

Talked what through? Do you have selective reading? He denied liability from any comms I made and said the marks were already there.

[Andy Travis]

Cracking job Andy. I'll let you know the cue is no good when I try it later 🤣

That's a message he sent me when he received the cue. 1 day later it's the worst work on a cue he's ever seen.

Heres what i think happened. Later that night he saw a mark on the cue so used his wire wool to make it look better but failed. then he took photos.

[thai_son22]

Cracking job Andy. I'll let you know the cue is no good when I try it later 🤣

That's a message he sent me when he received the cue. 1 day later it's the worst work on a cue he's ever seen.

Heres what i think happened. Later that night he saw a mark on the cue so used his wire wool to make it look better but failed. then he took photos.

Why don't you show photos of the messages showing you denying liability. Also the bits where I said I gave it a look over during work when it came and gave it a better look in the club.

Your deceit is admirable. Maybe I should expose the stunts you've tried to pull in the UK pool scene and the diatribe that comes out of your mouth after a few pints - lol - running around Sheffield like a loony.

And yeah - I put perfect lathe marks into the cue when I dont even have a lathe lol. Funny how even the cuemaker I sent the cue to agreed to fix your shoddy work agreed to this

[thai_son22]

Andy Travis do you think I would spend £100 with you, just to damage my cue and send it off and spend more money to repair it. How you rationalise that I put marks in the cue myself to then waste more money is beyond me. Also, I like how to this day you've just blind sided the bit about lathe marks and ignored that part completely and refuse to address it - another modern day Boris Johnson.

Yes, I did say the work was spot on, from what I saw. But how do you explain how poorly you aligned the grain in the maple. I've even attached a photo for you and others to see. Even to me, i thought this was ok but the cuemaker was the one who pointed out your work at aligning was crap. So can you explain this one? Or is this the quality of your work?

I even asked the cuemaker if I was being unreasonable with how I'd corresponded with you before going public and he agreed I'd been more than reasonable. Nice way to take someone's money and then try make them out to be a liar. I'm not stupid enough to deliberately mark an expensive cue but you are - to accept a job and do it to a poor standard. 20220601_103307.jpg

[Andy Travis]

It was 2mm out. didn't your cue makers tell you why

[thai_son22]

It was 2mm out. didn't your cue makers tell you why

Andy Travis yes, they said because you didnt center the cue properly in the lathe - which in fairness they did say you only have to be a fractionally out (which can easily happen).
They still agreed it was a bad job. They said the structural integrity of the joint i.e. how it was glued in was fine. Be it 5mm or 2mm, they said any decent cue maker would've been much closer in matching the grain or shouldve rejected the work.

I could sit here and slander your work all day long but I haven't done that and explicitly said its just the experience I have had and doesn't reflect the experience of other people. The cuemaker in question also said its odd because he also has seen much of your work and said you generally produce exceptional work so found it odd that when I raised these issues to you, you just denied you had done anything untoward to the cue.

I'm fine to be objective about things and tell it how it is - hence the reason why I came to you with the problem. I just don't understand why your response was "it was there already" to all the things I pointed out to you. Yes - in-spite of me initially saying the work was great - I only looked at the joint quickly and it had been installed well so I never knocked you there.

But you seem to have the standpoint that because I said it was a fantastic job initally- I somehow aren't allowed to change my mind and because I did, I must've had a bad night at club. In fact, it wasn't even me who had pointed all these things out initially - it was another long-time forum member so I could always ask him to post what he saw of the cue.

Even if I accept your point about the dents in the cue, I had to pay to have the deep scratches removed from the single ebony finger and the said cuemaker confirmed that they were very deep. They also removed the dent you left from the lathe so the cue is in really nice condition now. I had expressed that there appeared to be scratches in the maple and the cuemaker said its easy to mistake this as surface scratches but actually he commended the retapering work on the shaft and said those scratch marks are actually just the grain in the maple.

The point about your finish on the cue - I didn't say anything about it being bone dry or knock you for it - the cue maker I sent it out to pointed this out.

No one is out here to slander or ruin your reputation but your inability to accept any responsibility is both astonishing and has left a bitter taste.

[Andy Travis]

The first few lines of your answer tells me you've not spoken to any cue maker

[thai_son22]

The first few lines of your answer tells me you've not spoken to any cue maker

Do you want to see pictures of the cue before and after? Will you then have faith in my word? The same way I had faith in your work? I literally have side by sides of the cue when you handed it back and in the workshop after being fixed