Are We Being Cheated?

[Neil Taperell]

Nothing wrong in buying in cues fully made or part made but when the likes of Jonny Carr make out they are made in this country, nevermind how most are illegally raffled off well that just shows what a scum bag he is.

What is he doing then ? Buying in shafts and just adding splices ?
Is that why you are saying that he’s not making them in this country ?

I’m sure we’ve all heard the rumours of more well established ‘ names ‘ that are also doing this .

[Bilston Cues]

It's not rumours Neil it's proven fact.
He claims he buys in ash from both america and thailand, however virtually all of his cues have steel bolts in them and other than the odd cue made where the cuemaker has used steel as he has no lead left nobody in the uk or thailand uses steel nowadays, they all use lead.
we like many a cuemaker have had his cues in for alterations etc and have put a magnet to the butts many a time.
A guy down in Truro, found it hard to believe so I sent him some magnets for the two cues of his he had. He replied with a video showing the magnets sticking to the butt's which I posted on my Facebook page.
What he is doing is buying in cues from China, relabeling say 9 out of 10 and top splicing the 10th merely for his farcebook followers. He is then illegally raffling them off either directly himself or via his cronies such as Clint le Anson.
This all came to light about 4 or 5 years ago when he did a live video around lunchtime in which he held up a cue which was either oiled or lacquered as it was shiney and said.."heres a cue i made this morning' he then put it on a bench and planed a flat so he could add a topspluce. That's akin to saying to a body shop, respray my front wing and then fill the dent..
No one can possibly make a cue so quickly it was in reality one the postman had just delivered.

The football scratch cards he does for a cue are also fixed. I was not sure when I did a video showing how they are fiddled but as I have been the main one to call out the scumbag many have sent me photos of a card for a cue partially filled in then a picture of the same card just as he reveals the winner and they have different silver scratch off bits.
Furthermore he claimed he raised some £4000 for a cue for the NHS at the beginning of the pandemic. Later he posted saying he gave £100 of it to his postman and £100 to his dustbinman. Then he showed his car full of food which he had bought and delivered to a food bank which had nothing to do with the NHS and then we saw a cheque made out to a private care home again nothing to do with the NHS.

Thats just part of the story,. 100% scumbag.
i

[Bilston Cues]

Further evidence...

https://fb.watch/kmSP2n-tCM/



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00010572994732



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00010572994732

[the lone wolf]

Bottom line with this one piece/jointed scenario is when your next after a cue tell me which you want as we will do either.

Thanks for the offer.
I'm really hoping that the 3 cues currently being made, at least one of them will be what I am truly after

If not. I will just buy one off the rack, probably from Green Baize

[Bilston Cues]

Who was it who said to me a while back...

I would only ever but a cue once i had played with it first and i would never buy a foreign cue?

[gg29]

not one post from an actually cue maker, but shed loads from wannabees

[the lone wolf]

not one post from an actually cue maker, but shed loads from wannabees

I was hoping for a few more cue makers to post something to be honest. As the OP isn't intended to be taken negative but more of a constructive critic

[vmax]

Fair enough.
I must be wrong.
However I have contacted several cue makers to cover my machined cue with hand splices and all have refused saying it can't be done.

If you can do it then let me know how much you charge

The problem with hand splicing over an old machine spliced cue is that the hardwood butt on the machine splice cue is attached when the cue shaft is still a square blank, then when the two pieces are as one is it planed or turned down to a taper. This means that any weight is added by drilling up from the end of the butt and most old machine spliced cues have a small solid steel bar inserted about six inches from the end which brings the weight up to about 16.5 oz's at the most.
This weight is in the way if an attempt is made to hand splice on top of the machined splices and to removed it can damage the wood because it can't simply be drilled out like a soft lead weight can. Of course you can avoid the weight by planing thin splices but that would mean the original hardwood will still be visible, that maybe desireable as it could look good.

[Bilston Cues]

Pretty much pointless anyways as 99% of machine spliced cues have 2nd grade shafts

[the lone wolf]

The problem with hand splicing over an old machine spliced cue is that the hardwood butt on the machine splice cue is attached when the cue shaft is still a square blank, then when the two pieces are as one is it planed or turned down to a taper. This means that any weight is added by drilling up from the end of the butt and most old machine spliced cues have a small solid steel bar inserted about six inches from the end which brings the weight up to about 16.5 oz's at the most.
This weight is in the way if an attempt is made to hand splice on top of the machined splices and to removed it can damage the wood because it can't simply be drilled out like a soft lead weight can. Of course you can avoid the weight by planing thin splices but that would mean the original hardwood will still be visible, that maybe desireable as it could look good.

Thank you Vmax for your input.
having it explained makes sense to me know

So what are your thoughts re; the OP from the perspective of a cue maker?

[vmax]

Thank you Vmax for your input.
having it explained makes sense to me know

So what are your thoughts re; the OP from the perspective of a cue maker?

I think you've got a cue with a good shaft that feels right to you, the fact that its a one piece is irrelevant. My belief is that one should get a decent cue to start with, learn the game with that cue and keep it as that's your cue, the one you learned with, the one whose throw and deflection you know like the back of your hand. It's the same with most things in life, I've had my cue for 38 years now, it's shorter than it once was as I dropped it and damaged the tip end so had to cut it down and re-taper it but it was long to start with at 62 inches and 60.5 is still long enough. People should realise that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

I've just bought and old maple machine spliced cue off ebay. The seller says it's straight, the pictures show a really good piece of maple, which is good, it's badged J. Ashcroft & Co, 58 inches long,11mm tip, 16.5 oz's (old billiard spec) with no ferrule, butt's a bit shabby and the badge is sitting poorly but it looks good for a refinish, adding a decorative front splice and a stainless steel ferrule and then sell it on for double what I've paid for it which won't be extravagant considering the work I'll be doing.

I might, just might mind you, have a go at handsplicing over the top of the machined butt but that might entail cutting out the weight if my hotgun can't melt the glue that's holding it in, and even if it does it might be sitting tight in it's hole enough not to want to be budged. It would be very easy to simply cut the butt off at the point where the weight sits and dowell on another piece of hardwood and hand splice over the top of it, no one would know and the feel of the shaft would be unaffected but as an honest person I would be compelled to tell any potential customer as I'm not in this cue making game to rip people off and become rich, just need enough to supplement my pension and get by on when I retire in the summer. Don't tell HMRC 🤫

My one piece cues are all full shaft, even some 3/4 split ones that are made for tall players (longer than standard) and need to be split for ease of transport are made as a full shaft one piece first and then split at the balance point, not all but some and I state this in any description of sale.

[the lone wolf]

[QUOTE=vmax;n1031429]

I think you've got a cue with a good shaft that feels right to you, the fact that its a one piece is irrelevant. My belief is that one should get a decent cue to start with, learn the game with that cue and keep it as that's your cue, the one you learned with, the one whose throw and deflection you know like the back of your hand. It's the same with most things in life, I've had my cue for 38 years now, it's shorter than it once was as I dropped it and damaged the tip end so had to cut it down and re-taper it but it was long to start with at 62 inches and 60.5 is still long enough. People should realise that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

I've just bought and old maple machine spliced cue off ebay. The seller says it's straight, the pictures show a really good piece of maple, which is good, it's badged J. Ashcroft & Co, 58 inches long,11mm tip, 16.5 oz's (old billiard spec) with no ferrule, butt's a bit shabby and the badge is sitting poorly but it looks good for a refinish, adding a decorative front splice and a stainless steel ferrule and then sell it on for double what I've paid for it which won't be extravagant considering the work I'll be doing.

I might, just might mind you, have a go at handsplicing over the top of the machined butt but that might entail cutting out the weight if my hotgun can't melt the glue that's holding it in, and even if it does it might be sitting tight in it's hole enough not to want to be budged. It would be very easy to simply cut the butt off at the point where the weight sits and dowell on another piece of hardwood and hand splice over the top of it, no one would know and the feel of the shaft would be unaffected but as an honest person I would be compelled to tell any potential customer as I'm not in this cue making game to rip people off and become rich, just need enough to supplement my pension and get by on when I retire in the summer. Don't tell HMRC

[the lone wolf]

[QUOTE=vmax;n1031429]

I think you've got a cue with a good shaft that feels right to you, the fact that its a one piece is irrelevant. My belief is that one should get a decent cue to start with, learn the game with that cue and keep it as that's your cue, the one you learned with, the one whose throw and deflection you know like the back of your hand. It's the same with most things in life, I've had my cue for 38 years now, it's shorter than it once was as I dropped it and damaged the tip end so had to cut it down and re-taper it but it was long to start with at 62 inches and 60.5 is still long enough. People should realise that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

I've just bought and old maple machine spliced cue off ebay. The seller says it's straight, the pictures show a really good piece of maple, which is good, it's badged J. Ashcroft & Co, 58 inches long,11mm tip, 16.5 oz's (old billiard spec) with no ferrule, butt's a bit shabby and the badge is sitting poorly but it looks good for a refinish, adding a decorative front splice and a stainless steel ferrule and then sell it on for double what I've paid for it which won't be extravagant considering the work I'll be doing.

I might, just might mind you, have a go at handsplicing over the top of the machined butt but that might entail cutting out the weight if my hotgun can't melt the glue that's holding it in, and even if it does it might be sitting tight in it's hole enough not to want to be budged. It would be very easy to simply cut the butt off at the point where the weight sits and dowell on another piece of hardwood and hand splice over the top of it, no one would know and the feel of the shaft would be unaffected but as an honest person I would be compelled to tell any potential customer as I'm not in this cue making game to rip people off and become rich, just need enough to supplement my pension and get by on when I retire in the summer. Don't tell HMRC

[Siz]

... I do think the type of joint used makes a cue feel different. I like the standard screw joint as used by parris or phoenix, most quick locking joints feel a bit more dead, except the one andy gibbs used to use (with the opposing dots).

American pool cue manufacturers use a number of different types of joint for their (centre jointed) cues, each type having its own devotees. Players would swear they much preferred one material / design to any other. Then at one pro tournament, someone organised a blind testing of all the major joint types and asked the pros if they could identify what was what. It turned out nobody could. It was all in the mind.

It does not surprise me. Many years ago, I had a 1 piece cue made -by Parris - a 'full shaft' job. But I got fed up with the inconvenience of it. Then Steve Davis reported that when his 1-piece cue was badly damaged and had to be repaired, he decided to have it converted into a 3/4, and reported that it played exactly the same. I thought, if it is good enough for Davis, it is good enough for me. I had a 3/4 joint put in mine and it played exactly the same. It is all in the mind.

And it is not that I am particularly insensitive to cues. I used to play with someone who had an ebony & ash cue that was visually almost identical to mine, and was roughly the same weight. One day I picked up his cue instead of mine from the table where he had left it. It felt so weird in my hand that I flinched and almost dropped it in shock. I had got so used to the feel of my own cue. But adding a joint made no difference to playability. It is all in the mind.

The one piece of advice that I would give is this (and I am sure that the cue makers here will back me up):

Once you have found a cue that suits you and you really get on with it - get another one. Have someone make you a cue that is more or less a replica. Then try playing with that until you get used to it. If you switch cues, knowing that you can switch back at any time, the mind will not play tricks on you. You will find that the substitute cue is fine. It now does not matter if one of your cues gets lost / stolen / broken. You can just use the other one and will not bother about it.

BUT if you find a cue that suits you and you really get on with it and do not get yourself a back up, you risk becoming dependent on it. Then you better hope that nothing happens to it. If it does, you might find that you can never, ever, find a cue that plays as well as the one that is lost to you. This has happened to some very good players. It is all in the mind.

edit: To address the OP's question, are we being cheated? Yes. That is what marketing is.

[gg29]

so [f you can only make thirty breaks does that apply