Are We Being Cheated?

[vmax]

It does not surprise me. Many years ago, I had a 1 piece cue made -by Parris - a 'full shaft' job. But I got fed up with the inconvenience of it. Then Steve Davis reported that when his 1-piece cue was badly damaged and had to be repaired, he decided to have it converted into a 3/4, and reported that it played exactly the same. I thought, if it is good enough for Davis, it is good enough for me. I had a 3/4 joint put in mine and it played exactly the same. It is all in the mind..

I did the same to my cue, 62 inches long one piece was a pain to transport so I sent it away to have it 3/4 split on the balance point, just above the splices like Mark Williams cue. It was an ounce heavier due to the joint but felt the same because it's balance didn't alter. Even after I had to cut it back to 60.5 inches the balance was virtually the same because that little piece of wood at the tip end weighed next to nothing.

[the lone wolf]

American pool cue manufacturers use a number of different types of joint for their (centre jointed) cues, each type having its own devotees. Players would swear they much preferred one material / design to any other. Then at one pro tournament, someone organised a blind testing of all the major joint types and asked the pros if they could identify what was what. It turned out nobody could. It was all in the mind.

It does not surprise me. Many years ago, I had a 1 piece cue made -by Parris - a 'full shaft' job. But I got fed up with the inconvenience of it. Then Steve Davis reported that when his 1-piece cue was badly damaged and had to be repaired, he decided to have it converted into a 3/4, and reported that it played exactly the same. I thought, if it is good enough for Davis, it is good enough for me. I had a 3/4 joint put in mine and it played exactly the same. It is all in the mind.

And it is not that I am particularly insensitive to cues. I used to play with someone who had an ebony & ash cue that was visually almost identical to mine, and was roughly the same weight. One day I picked up his cue instead of mine from the table where he had left it. It felt so weird in my hand that I flinched and almost dropped it in shock. I had got so used to the feel of my own cue. But adding a joint made no difference to playability. It is all in the mind.

The one piece of advice that I would give is this (and I am sure that the cue makers here will back me up):

Once you have found a cue that suits you and you really get on with it - get another one. Have someone make you a cue that is more or less a replica. Then try playing with that until you get used to it. If you switch cues, knowing that you can switch back at any time, the mind will not play tricks on you. You will find that the substitute cue is fine. It now does not matter if one of your cues gets lost / stolen / broken. You can just use the other one and will not bother about it.

BUT if you find a cue that suits you and you really get on with it and do not get yourself a back up, you risk becoming dependent on it. Then you better hope that nothing happens to it. If it does, you might find that you can never, ever, find a cue that plays as well as the one that is lost to you. This has happened to some very good players. It is all in the mind.

edit: To address the OP's question, are we being cheated? Yes. That is what marketing is.

I agree with you on having a replica cue made as a back up cue. This is what in currently doing and I e got 3 cues being made that I'm very hopeful that at least one will match my current cue.

My current cue is an old machine cue, but the shaft is old to the point that I'm changing ferrules every 6 months or so because the wood is splinters and this has nothing to do with how I stroke the balls.

In regards to the OP, I disagree.
I specialise in marketing (it's my day job) and there is a fine line between selling a product through words and basically lying to achieve the same goals. This is why there are regulations in selling products and those who break the rules or cheat will be in trouble

Marketing is marketing
Lying about a product is cheating!

So I again ask.
Are we being cheated?

[Cue crafty]

I agree with you on having a replica cue made as a back up cue. This is what in currently doing and I e got 3 cues being made that I'm very hopeful that at least one will match my current cue.

My current cue is an old machine cue, but the shaft is old to the point that I'm changing ferrules every 6 months or so because the wood is splinters and this has nothing to do with how I stroke the balls.

In regards to the OP, I disagree.
I specialise in marketing (it's my day job) and there is a fine line between selling a product through words and basically lying to achieve the same goals. This is why there are regulations in selling products and those who break the rules or cheat will be in trouble

Marketing is marketing
Lying about a product is cheating!

So I again ask.
Are we being cheated?

To my knowledge I don't believe there is a defined product description of how a billiard cue must be made. Therefore if a cue is advertised as a 1 piece and it's in one piece then no one has been cheated. The fact that the original craft of making cues traditionally used a full length shaft doesn't matter. Many people will not know or care about this, those, like yourself who do have this knowledge and care how the cue is constructed can simply ask the manufacturer how the cue is made. If you can't get a direct answer don't buy, you haven't been cheated.

I think this goes for most things, you can only allow yourself to be cheated if you knowingly purchase an item without knowing exactly what it is and how it's made. There is no onus on the manufacturer in this scenario it's on you to find the answers and make your decision.

[the lone wolf]

To my knowledge I don't believe there is a defined product description of how a billiard cue must be made. Therefore if a cue is advertised as a 1 piece and it's in one piece then no one has been cheated. The fact that the original craft of making cues traditionally used a full length shaft doesn't matter. Many people will not know or care about this, those, like yourself who do have this knowledge and care how the cue is constructed can simply ask the manufacturer how the cue is made. If you can't get a direct answer don't buy, you haven't been cheated.

I think this goes for most things, you can only allow yourself to be cheated if you knowingly purchase an item without knowing exactly what it is and how it's made. There is no onus on the manufacturer in this scenario it's on you to find the answers and make your decision.

Agreed Cue Crafty

This thread wasn't designed to have a pop at the industry, but more to create an awareness for those out there who maybe thinking of buying or ordering a cue without having the full extent of knowledge when doing so...

There's no right or wrong answer -
Only informed awareness

[Cue crafty]

Agreed Cue Crafty

This thread wasn't designed to have a pop at the industry, but more to create an awareness for those out there who maybe thinking of buying or ordering a cue without having the full extent of knowledge when doing so...

There's no right or wrong answer -
Only informed awareness

Yes it's valuable information and will serve people well, helping buyers make an informed decision. 😉

[Siz]

My current cue is an old machine cue, but the shaft is old to the point that I'm changing ferrules every 6 months or so because the wood is splinters and this has nothing to do with how I stroke the balls.

Assuming it is an ash shaft, do you / have you oiled it regularly? Linseed oil does wonders, although perhaps your cue is past the point of no return

I specialise in marketing (it's my day job) and there is a fine line between selling a product through words and basically lying to achieve the same goals. This is why there are regulations in selling products and those who break the rules or cheat will be in trouble

Marketing is marketing
Lying about a product is cheating!

Yes, my comment equating marketing to cheating was more than a little glib. I did think to myself as I hit the return key, I hope nobody who reads this works in marketing! But in this social media age, don't think just press send. I apologise.

Perhaps cheat is too strong a word; deceive might be nearer the mark. We have a propensity to deceive ourselves in many situations, allowing ourselves to believe things that would be convenient but are simply not true, creating and clinging on to false hopes. Many marketing strategies seem to play to that propensity. So if I could rephrase the question as 'are we being deceived?' then I would answer, yes. Very few of us have the knowledge we think we have in this area; and in making assumptions to fill in the gaps in our understanding about how a cue is actually made, what matters and what does not, how it will affect our potential on the table, we deceive ourselves. And I don't think that this tendency is likely to worry anyone who works in cue marketing. There is no need to lie. Or cheat.

[the lone wolf]

Assuming it is an ash shaft, do you / have you oiled it regularly? Linseed oil does wonders, although perhaps your cue is past the point of no return



Yes, my comment equating marketing to cheating was more than a little glib. I did think to myself as I hit the return key, I hope nobody who reads this works in marketing! But in this social media age, don't think just press send. I apologise.

Perhaps cheat is too strong a word; deceive might be nearer the mark. We have a propensity to deceive ourselves in many situations, allowing ourselves to believe things that would be convenient but are simply not true, creating and clinging on to false hopes. Many marketing strategies seem to play to that propensity. So if I could rephrase the question as 'are we being deceived?' then I would answer, yes. Very few of us have the knowledge we think we have in this area; and in making assumptions to fill in the gaps in our understanding about how a cue is actually made, what matters and what does not, how it will affect our potential on the table, we deceive ourselves. And I don't think that this tendency is likely to worry anyone who works in cue marketing. There is no need to lie. Or cheat.

I agree with you.

Take the title of the thread. I made a decision to use inflammatory language by using the word cheat because it's guaranteed a response as apposed to using a word like deceive...

so if anyone should feel to retract their words it should be me

But at least we've got to this point. Which is all I ever wanted achieve at the time of pressing the return key

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Re; my Cue shaft
I RE-OIL the cue using linseed. It's just old and was probably lying around for years neglected when I found and rescued it...