Taper and throw

[TornadoTed]

I recently saw a video on YouTube with Andy Hunter talking about a couple of cues he had bought. He said at one point that he was getting over an inch of throw but after thinning down the taper it was reduced to nothing, that appears around 2.45 in the video.

I read an American pool cue page where they say a cue with pro taper will give less throw but conversely a straight taper will give more energy transfer.

I already knew the principal of less end mass producing less throw.

I am making a break cue for English pool and I obviously want as much energy transfer as possible but also want as little throw as possible so I can hit the pack square as possible.

I have read a lot of topics on taper on here and there is lots of talk about the taper and 'playabilty' of a cue but I haven't read any mention of throw or power transfer in particular before.

I would be interested in getting some thoughts on these principals.

[TornadoTed]

Here is the link the the American pool cue page where they talk about squirt (throw) and power transfer.

[vmax]

Throw is something that happens when you don't strike the centre of the cue ball, the cue ball will 'throw' (deflection as we call it in snooker) to the opposite side of which ever side of the cue ball that is contacted by the tip of the cue.
This deflection is minimal over distance as the cue ball will be spinning and will come back onto line as it reacts to the friction of the cloth. However when close to the object ball or using a lot of power this deflection has to be compensated for by offset aiming.
This offset aiming is a minefield in snooker due to the nap of the cloth, pool tables generally have no nap so the offset is the same whichever direction the cue ball is travelling but the one way directional nap on a snooker table means the spinning cue ball reacts differently when spinning with the lay of the nap, against it, along it or across it.

There is no such thing as a cue that doesn't deflect the cue ball when using side, it's a question of basic physics that it always happens, there is also no such thing as a cue that deflects the cue ball when playing dead centre cue ball striking, if that happens then the strike wasn't as dead centre as the player was attempting.

If you have a cue that deflects the cue ball significantly then you can alter that with thinning the taper but why bother when all you need to do is get used to the deflection of your particular cue and allow for it when using side, when striking centre cue ball learn to cue straight and there will be no deflection.

These pool sites are simply selling something to players who can't cue straight and find difficulty in finding a 4 inch wide pocket from 3 feet away, and if you want a break cue for US pool to protect your playing cue then something really stiff is the road to go down as they generally use phenolic (same general material as the balls) tips or if it's for UK 8 ball then you really don't need one for that little cue ball.

[TornadoTed]

Throw is something that happens when you don't strike the centre of the cue ball, the cue ball will 'throw' (deflection as we call it in snooker) to the opposite side of which ever side of the cue ball that is contacted by the tip of the cue.
This deflection is minimal over distance as the cue ball will be spinning and will come back onto line as it reacts to the friction of the cloth. However when close to the object ball or using a lot of power this deflection has to be compensated for by offset aiming.
This offset aiming is a minefield in snooker due to the nap of the cloth, pool tables generally have no nap so the offset is the same whichever direction the cue ball is travelling but the one way directional nap on a snooker table means the spinning cue ball reacts differently when spinning with the lay of the nap, against it, along it or across it.

There is no such thing as a cue that doesn't deflect the cue ball when using side, it's a question of basic physics that it always happens, there is also no such thing as a cue that deflects the cue ball when playing dead centre cue ball striking, if that happens then the strike wasn't as dead centre as the player was attempting.

If you have a cue that deflects the cue ball significantly then you can alter that with thinning the taper but why bother when all you need to do is get used to the deflection of your particular cue and allow for it when using side, when striking centre cue ball learn to cue straight and there will be no deflection.

These pool sites are simply selling something to players who can't cue straight and find difficulty in finding a 4 inch wide pocket from 3 feet away, and if you want a break cue for US pool to protect your playing cue then something really stiff is the road to go down as they generally use phenolic (same general material as the balls) tips or if it's for UK 8 ball then you really don't need one for that little cue ball.

Thank you for the reply but I wasn't really after advice. I was more interested in the effect of tapering on throw and power transfer as those were principals I haven't seen discussed on here in any other threads about taper.

If as you say 'There is no such thing as a cue that doesn't deflect the cue ball when using side' What do you make of the claim by Andy Hunter that the cue went from over an inch of throw to no throw at all after tapering in the YouTube video I linked to. I found this claim pretty astonishing but I respect his opinion from the many videos of his that I have watched.

One thing I disagree on is the use of a break cue for English pool and I found it out the hard way. The bottom of my John Parris wore a flat patch in the end after rubbing over the metal strip on the cushion when breaking for 15 years with it.

[vmax]

If as you say 'There is no such thing as a cue that doesn't deflect the cue ball when using side' What do you make of the claim by Andy Hunter that the cue went from over an inch of throw to no throw at all after tapering in the YouTube video I linked to. I found this claim pretty astonishing but I respect his opinion from the many videos of his that I have watched..

I also watched a video on youtube about Predator cues with low deflection shafts. A certain pro showed a supposed 'normal' cues deflection by addressing the tip to the cue ball parallel to the line of aim, and yes the deflection was clear. He then played a shot using the new super duper low deflection Predator cue and addressed the tip of the cue to the cue ball by pivoting the cue in his bridge so that it followed the line of deflection and not the line of aim and therefore looked like it went straight.

As for Andy Hunters claim, he obviously isn't a physics major, if anyone strikes the cue ball off centre the tip will push the cue ball off the straight line, the cue ball will be carrying side spin and will curve as the spin reacts to the cloth and can come back onto line or go beyond the line as in a swerve shot.
Is he claiming throw by cueing centre cue ball ? if he is then he can't cue as straight as he thinks he is or he pivots the cue when playing with sidespin.

One must understand that the cue ball when stuck off centre will first spin horizontally until it grips the cloth and finishes its initial swerve, it will then roll forward spinning at an angle that is pretty much adjacent to the tilt of the earth's axis. You can try this with a striped pool ball struck at 3 or 9 o'clock on its face with the stripe horizontal or vertical and watch as it makes this transition, the reason why severe swerve shots are played by striking down on the cue ball off centre is to magnify this effect and give maximum swerve.

[itsnoteasy]

I am very wary of videos on cueing trying to prove any point because of confirmation bias. Subconsciously because you are trying to prove a point you will cue so that the outcome proves your point. It's not deliberate and it's not cheating or trying to fool people, it's just the way we are made, everyone does it.
I'm also curious as to pace and distance of these type of experiments. Can we cue at exactly the same pace(let alone trying to strike the cue ball exactly the same) and if I play from the brown spot and hit directly behind the black spot using side, is that showing no deflection? Or is that showing a ball that been deflected and came back on line over the distance? Struck exactly the same does it cross the blue spot on it's way down as a zero deflection cue should do that, as a plain ball shot would, I doubt it but id like to see it.