difference between 'A' and 'AAA' Ash

[brother4]

As I know the top range Maple are "5A","AAAAA",Ash are "3A","AAA"

[unclevit]

I dont really know the difference but know that AAA has more chevrons, and generally tighter grain than A.

good example of top ash

It's the art of the nature that one is paying for. I like XS shaft model in BCE's Heritage cues. Very sliky silky smooth on bridge

[Snook1]

I think it's down to luck if you buy an off the shelf cue or the skill of your selected cue maker knows his ash or maple.
You could have all the chevrons in the world but it could be a stiff broom handle with no feel or real life in it. Then also it could be whippy and too springy causing cueing problems. If you are lucky and get a good piece of ash that makes a cue with excellent balance and feel and is capable of the full range of shots required.

This is how some top pros have an off the shelf rack cue they still use today, because they were lucky and got a good one.

Just my opinion of course.

[unclevit]

I think it's down to luck if you buy an off the shelf cue or the skill of your selected cue maker knows his ash or maple.
You could have all the chevrons in the world but it could be a stiff broom handle with no feel or real life in it. Then also it could be whippy and too springy causing cueing problems. If you are lucky and get a good piece of ash that makes a cue with excellent balance and feel and is capable of the full range of shots required.

This is how some top pros have an off the shelf rack cue they still use today, because they were lucky and got a good one.

Just my opinion of course.

Agree Like one of my friends who has several US$200-400 cues, customs, but ended up buying a 'rack 1-pc cue' that fits him very nicely, as well as giving him plenty of 70+ score. He is lucky to find one

[ChatLag]

I am not sure that there is an official rule for the classification of the grade.
If y timber is good depends on the purpose: An ash used for a broom has different quality attributes that one used for a guitar.

So how will you absolutely define what makes a wood AAA?

I found this for musical instruments:

Master Grade has very fine even texture, moderate to strong medularies, very even color. One of those "one in a-thousand" tops

AAA Grade also has very even texture and color, but there is just something that makes it not one of those "one in a-thousand" tops.

AA grade is a NICE Grade that can have even texture but some subtle color or even color with uneven texture. It is the grade used for most moderate priced [$800-$1000] instruments of manufacturers.

A grade still makes a nice instrument with character. Manufacturers use this grade on their models that average $300-$700. It just has an appearance that won,t allow it into the next grade.

[trevs1]

Thanks for that, it was nice to read that again, but it doesn't explain the difference between 'A' and 'AAA' ash. Anyone know the official reasoning?

The term 'A' or 'AAA' or even 'AAAAAAAAA'.......in reality, means very little.

As has been mentioned on this site in the past (I think), ash differs from piece to piece not only in grain, but also in density, stiffness, colour and other visual variations.

Timber is selected for cue shafts on the basis of 'ALL' of these attributes.

The problems arise when we begin to cut this timber down into shaft blanks (squares of approx 1.5" X 1.5" X 58" long). Quite often the timber in the board form looks perfect, but, when it is cut into these blanks, it can and does display some defects here or there. Now, what one would call a defect, another might not see as a problem, but it's these defects that will determine whether that blank gets used and converted into a round shaft.

Once the selected blanks are converted into round form, it can then be graded and sorted again, with those displaying any noticeable problems being discarded (again, this can vary from maker to maker I guess).

What is then left to use, will be the timber (shafts) which display the best physical and visual attributes for making a good, solid trustworthy cue.

It appears to be more the 'VISUAL' attributes amongst the buying public that determine the grade of 'A' or 'AAA' or 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA '

The more important physical side of the timber is also factored into this grading, but, by and large, it's the grain pattern that appears to make the biggest difference to those who want cues made.

The timber which is often spoken about as being this 'AAA' grade will be those shafts which display a number of clearly defined arrow/chevron markings running up one side of the shaft. These 'AAA' shafts are also preferred with not only these clearly defined arrow/chevron markings, but, perfectly straight grain on each side of the shaft (usually with approx 6 to 12 grain lines - (or growth rings) - per inch of thickness). Believe it or not, some players/people will actually feel that unless this same standard of shaft has absolutely no arrow/chevron markings running in the opposite direction on the reverse side of the shaft, it is not 'AAA' grade.

The problem is this........

When selecting boards of timber for cue shafts, it is a very very small minority of the timber selected which will actually yield shafts with these kind of visual attributes......i.e.....perfectly straight grain, perfectly even sharply defined arrow/chevron marks, no knotts at all, good even colour and good weight and stiffness.

So, is it realistic to expect it to be readily available ALL of the time???

Probably not, no.

And if it is available, should it be used at some kind of premium price???

Yes, it probably should, and in fact, probably is.

If anyone looks at not only the cues I build, but, the Ultimate cues of John Parris, the black plate cues of Rob O and Will Hunt, the custom work by Mike Wooldridge and 'pro' range by Craftsman and so on and so on. Aren't these cues usually the cues which tend to have the premium grade (or at least, the timber with these visual attributes) used in them? Of course they are.

The reason for this is not because they are better, or truly 'AAA' grade, but, is more to do with the fact that more people have become a little obsessed by shafts which display these visual details in them.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked whether a shaft with these attributes actually plays and performs better than shafts without. To me, it's kind of frightening that people actually believe that it might make some difference to how a cue will perform, when in truth, it makes not the slightest bit of difference whatsoever.

It's also clear that many people will ask for this appearance in a cue shaft simply because they feel it's what they 'should' have, when in reality, it makes no difference to them when they play, as they have not learnt over time that they have a personal preference for using this grain pattern when sighting.

The simple truth of it is, that as long as the shaft is of adequate stiffness and weight, and, has no clear visible problems, then it will in all probability make as great a cue as any shaft with the most perfect looking grain.

[Fatboy]

Is that a cat eating that (your) cue??

thats too funny, thank you for the laugh, I hadnt noticed,

best
eric

[Fatboy]

I can only speak of American cues with maple shafts, I do have good credentials in that niche'.

The grade of maple A to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is for the most part meaningless when considering how good it plays, the grading system is accurate when judging cosmetic appearance, there might be a some corolation between looks and playability, but not alot, not enough to be any sort of indicator of how the cue/shaft will play. Its alot easier for a cue maker to sell a cue with pretty shafts than ugly ones so for that reason the nicer looking wood demands a permium. All the talk of "Growth ring's per inch" or "Grain run-off" is just a bunch of words to make a way to sell the wood for more $$$.


How a shaft looks and plays are for the most part 2 different things.


I dont know if this is as true for snooker cues, experience is the best teacher.

[poolqjunkie]

So, more growth rings in ash=higher stiffness?

[Fatboy]

So, more growth rings in ash=higher stiffness?

I would guess-I dont have a guess. Cause the dark part in ash is less dense right? if thats right then more rings=more dark=less dense???? I think. heck I dont know,

in maple more rings almost awalys equals more density/stiffness. But maple isnt like ash, I have almost no experence with ash, and ash is a very differnet wood than maple, most other woods the more rings the more stiff, but ash is a pourious wood and differnt than cocbolo, rose, ebony, etc. I have alot of experience with woods but nothing like ash.

[barracuda911]

So, more growth rings in ash=higher stiffness?

Not so sure...
I had a Parris Traditional and it had very wide grains, perhaps 3mm apart.My Mike Wooldridge cue has very close grains and they are perhaps 1mm apart.
Both shafts are very firm.

[poolqjunkie]

I would guess-I dont have a guess. Cause the dark part in ash is less dense right? if thats right then more rings=more dark=less dense???? I think. heck I dont know,

in maple more rings almost awalys equals more density/stiffness. But maple isnt like ash, I have almost no experence with ash, and ash is a very differnet wood than maple, most other woods the more rings the more stiff, but ash is a pourious wood and differnt than cocbolo, rose, ebony, etc. I have alot of experience with woods but nothing like ash.

I believe with maple it is true that the closer the grains the denser it should be.

With ash, I think too many close grain actually make the wood less dense, isn't that right?

But then if you compare two different pieces of wood, isn't it also possible to have a piece heavier although it has more grains than another piece with less grains which is light just because they come from different origins?

[Fatboy]

I believe with maple it is true that the closer the grains the denser it should be.

With ash, I think too many close grain actually make the wood less dense, isn't that right?

But then if you compare two different pieces of wood, isn't it also possible to have a piece heavier although it has more grains than another piece with less grains which is light just because they come from different origins?

Generally in maple the closer the grains the denser the wood, also the yellow darker maple that is from the inner rings of the tree is much heavier and better shaft wood, sadly that is mostly used to manufactor pallets for bags of dry goods, like live stock feed, dog food, etc. It makes the best shaft wood, alot of the old cues like Balabushka as a example used this maple, it is very dense, and hard to ding. It also stays straighter.

I have a friend who is a maple expert, he is a cue maker and has been harvesting his maple in Ohio and Michagan(I think) for over about 10 years, I will ask him again to refreash my memory and let you know. he really knows his stuff.

I know one thing for sure the bright white kiln dried maple is very over rated, It looks great but if you set the cue on the rest with out care it will put a ding in the shaft, where the old center cut dark maple is much like ash, its hard to ding. I see snooker players slap their cues on the rest with out thinking about it, I cringe when I see that as it would ding up a mapleshaft. I have to have my shafts refinished on my pool cue about every 40-50 hours of play, and I'm very careful with them.

Its a pity that the good wood is used for pallets and the good looking wood is used in cues, that change happened in the late 70's. I have about 70-80 pool cues from 1960 to current. The shafts do tend to yellow with age but they stay soft, center cut maple is the best(I will get the explanation from Eric next time we talk-I cant remember 100%, I dont BS or guess about things, let me find out and I will report back)


I dont know anything about ash to speak of, I will ask around and see, I'm a wood geek and I want to learn about it. It is not used at all in American cues, or in the PI either, I dont think ash is used outside of snooker, unles its for reds and yellow(and I never seen that anywhere except the UK)


best regards

eric


PS: thanks to everyone here for their input, I know there arnt many Americans here, please know that I'm not very American, never have been, I dont assoicate well here as I do elsewhere. Its just where I'm from, soon I will be moving-finally I have the means to.

[poolqjunkie]

Yes, I do notice that a lot of the maple used on pool cues these days are quite "soft." Especially the kind they use on laminated shaft such as OB and Predator--it looks quite a bit softer then even the old house cues we find on the racks and the wood does get dented very easily.

I have heard that some cue makers bleach their maple to achieve that whiteness that most people favor when ordering a cue. Perhaps that bleaching process weakens the wood?

Have heard from other pool playing friends that ash would be too "distracting" for those who cannot stand any blemish on the shaft.

Interestingly, snooker players never seem to be too distracted by ash grains although snooker requires longer potting and higher accuracy.

Enjoy your feedback and comment, Eric, please keep posting.

It is wonderful to hear someone liking the game of snooker and having the resources to buy the best cues and tables in the US.