Cue badged with a Chinese name.

[poolqjunkie]

As there was a discussion about cues made in China with an English name, it makes me wonder how would you react to a cue made in the UK by a Chinese cue maker (let's just call him Jet Li) and badged as such.
Let's say a cue (even splice, good balance, round and straight...etc) is made in a British Chinese cue maker's shop in London, and the badge says, "Hand made, Jet Li, London."
You try it and you think it is excellent in terms of playability as well as workmanship.
Would you have a lower preception toward this cue over another cue with the same quality by a non Chinese cue maker?

[bongo]

Good point poolqjunkie. I think I would rather have a cue made by somebody well known or somebody who I know is a good cue maker. Whether they were called Jet Li or Bob Smith I think I would feel the same about them as I wouldn't know for sure if they were good cuemakers.

[philip in china]

First of all I hold no brief for Chinese made goods.

One problem about Chinese made goods is that you see only a tiny part of what is amde here. If a retailer contacts a Chinese factory and asks for, let us say, 500 bar pool tables but specifies that they must not cost the retailer more than $20 each then guess what the quality is going to be like! China is no different from anywhere else. If you buy cheap you get junk. That is a fundamental law of economics!

When I was a boy "made in Japan" meant it was the lowest quality rubbish. They made a decision to improve quality as a nation and the rest, as the saying goes, is history!

So I would say, quite seriously, watch out for better quality cues and eventually tables from the far east. They will come.

Let me leave you with one final thought. In 1945 almost every motorcycle brand of any quality was British. We made the best in the world so knew that we didn't need to alter a thing. A man in Japan started experimenting by putting lawnmower engines onto pedal cycles to see if he could make a small, lightweight motorbike. The idea was absolutely ridiculous. British mannufacturers knew that everybody would always want huge, heavy bikes. The Japanese man had a name with which you might be familiar. He was Mr. Honda!

[poolqjunkie]

Just to clarify, my question is: If the cue maker is a British born Chinese--will you think any less of him as a cue maker than a British born white person?

In other words, when you see the name, "Jet Li"--do you right away associate it with "made in China" even though this "Jet Li" is actually a British born person who may not even know how to speak Chinese?

[sanman]

When the first Japanese car makers appeared on the scene people laughed at them. Those same people are now crying. The same with them computing world. Once Intels monopoly was busted prices came down so the good with the Chinese entering the market is that it keeps everyone on their toes. The Chinese will improve with time that is certain even if they do not have it spot on now. A few Thai cue makers enjoy a great reputation internationally and I don’t see why this is not possible in the near to short term that we get a prominent Chinese cue maker entering the market. The best thing is that with them entering the market the established cue makers cannot sit on their laurels and assume that their established market will always remain faithful. Past market trends with other products have shown this and besides it removes a lot of the snob value associated with some prominent cue makers. I will refrain from naming anyone but please don’t tell me a piece of wood can be worth 500 quid. I can bet my bottom dollar that if a Chinese manufacturer can duplicate a car like the BMW X5 and RAV4 then a cue should not be too much of a hassle. So when testing some of these Chinese brands do not be put off by the name but test the cue purely on its ability. I am pretty sure that they have templates of some popular cue type and can easily make it to spec as is the wont of most Chinese industries( namely forging) So for the established players in the cue-making business watch out and as for us consumers/customers its all smiles.

[poolqjunkie]

These are all very interesting and insightful replies, thank you.
Is it fair to say that most people would right away associate a cue with a Chinese name as "made in China"?
The responses to this thread kind of suggest that.

[sanman]

The global market is tough. In order to be succesful you have to improve. The chinese are a smart people

[poolqjunkie]

This is actually not what I originally wanted to discuss but yes, I think if they have learned how to build a cue properly, there is no reason really why they cannot be good at it.

I remember many years ago the Taiwanese was very bad at making American 9 ball cues. They used to make mostly decal cues, which is basically cue made with very cheap wood stained as ebony or maple covered with decal, which is like instant tatoo, as inlays. Their joints, ferrules and joint collars would come off, the joint pins were not faced right, and the shaft wood was horrible. They had no idea how to apply a proper layer of finish.

Then Bill Stroud of Josswest cues went to China and started showing these people how to set up a proper cue shop. He showed them many things that they did not even knew was possible.

Now, a lot of major cue brands are made over in China, including USD $1000+ cues.

A lot of these cue factories are owned by Taiwanese but are located in China. Tai-Can is properly the most well established. Tai-Can is the company which hired Bill Stroud as their consultant.

Some of the American cue makers are so mad at Bill, that they basically excluded him from the American cue makers association. These cue makers blame Bill for showing the Chinese their "trade secret" thus making life difficult for the Americans.

[kevin147q]

These are all very interesting and insightful replies, thank you.
Is it fair to say that most people would right away associate a cue with a Chinese name as "made in China"?
The responses to this thread kind of suggest that.

" made in china " = mass product at middle / low quality

[ADR147]

the simple truth is that so far i have never seen a top class cue from china, and i have seen a lot of cues!

[Mr O]

I don't think it's a race issue at all. If Mr. "Jet Li" was a British Chinaman, and a good cue craftsman I don't think the cues would be regarded as inferior because he was Chinese.
The reason they're not worth much is because a) Most of them were suspiciously cheap to begin with, even with British sounding names on the badge. b) More people are now aware of the trade in these cues, and c) in general they're not very good, they're the "Goodmans" of the cue world

[ChatLag]

If a British cue maker named Bob Smith is making bad cues he will not gain a good reputation andmaybe vanish from the market.
If a Chinese cue maker named Jet Li makes fabulous cues in terms of craftsmanship and playability he can develop a good reputation and will be respected.
What I try to say is that quality and customer service on the long run will be the key factor to success. No matter where on the world.

IMO the main problem of Chinese cues besides the poor quality is that there is no person, no craftsman behind it.
That is for me the main thing of the UK cue makers. There is a person, not just a factory. And if that person vanishes, things are getting bit more difficult as the feedback about John Parris here shows.

[poolqjunkie]

If a British cue maker named Bob Smith is making bad cues he will not gain a good reputation andmaybe vanish from the market.
If a Chinese cue maker named Jet Li makes fabulous cues in terms of craftsmanship and playability he can develop a good reputation and will be respected.
What I try to say is that quality and customer service on the long run will be the key factor to success. No matter where on the world.

IMO the main problem of Chinese cues besides the poor quality is that there is no person, no craftsman behind it.
That is for me the main thing of the UK cue makers. There is a person, not just a factory. And if that person vanishes, things are getting bit more difficult as the feedback about John Parris here shows.

Very true, very good points.

But do you think it may take a Chinese cue maker more time to establish his reputation because if his name?

[ChatLag]

Very true, very good points.

But do you think it may take a Chinese cue maker more time to establish his reputation because if his name?

There might be the biggest difference. It will be harder for the Chinese cue maker in China than for the Chinese cue maker in UK.

But it would be nice to have a Chinese origin top class cue with a beautiful badge with chinese characters.
By far better than a crappy Chinese cue presuming to be a UK origin.

[kevin147q]

If a British cue maker named Bob Smith is making bad cues he will not gain a good reputation andmaybe vanish from the market.
If a Chinese cue maker named Jet Li makes fabulous cues in terms of craftsmanship and playability he can develop a good reputation and will be respected.
What I try to say is that quality and customer service on the long run will be the key factor to success. No matter where on the world.

IMO the main problem of Chinese cues besides the poor quality is that there is no person, no craftsman behind it.
That is for me the main thing of the UK cue makers. There is a person, not just a factory. And if that person vanishes, things are getting bit more difficult as the feedback about John Parris here shows.

The snooker cue factorys in china have most 20 years experience making snooker cues , It means the master cuemaker in factory have same history. The low grade cues are made by the factory workers. The master cuemaker do the main process of making top handmade cues.