A very bad experience with Dave Coutts.

[ADR147]

at no point did we ever quote jamie a price for the import cue as he never asked and we told him straight away that we could only give him £200 for jp cue - we do run a business and i always tell people that want to part ex that i am not the best person to do it with, they should do it privately or on ebay, but most people cant be bothered to wait or be bothered with the hassle. this is the same for any business from air guns to fishing tackle that need to make a profit

well i would like to add whatever weight and reputation i have on this site to the fray.

i have spoken to dave a number of times and found him to be both friendly and honest as well as knowledgable and i will state to anyone that he is a superb cue maker. as for the parris cue i think £200 was a very fair offer indeed. i would have offered £180 for it if it had dents etc and needed time spent on it.

[platt]

I have to say Dave is one hell of a nice guy and very fair anytime i have done business with him, Regarding JP cues, people see them make silly money on ebay and use this as a guide to value their own cues this way, for me they are over rated and are not worth the money some of them make... i got a MW cue off ebay a few months ago for very good money and i would stand it beside any JP cue at twice the money they make.
Dave offered what in the trade is good money, everybody is intitled to make some profit,

[les147]

Why don`t everybody stop slagging dave off he is one hell of a stand up guy,i have had numerous coutts cues and his work is second to none.I would not and will not hesitate to buy another one of his cues.

[KeithinFrance]

well i would like to add whatever weight and reputation i have on this site to the fray.

i have spoken to dave a number of times and found him to be both friendly and honest as well as knowledgable and i will state to anyone that he is a superb cue maker. as for the parris cue i think £200 was a very fair offer indeed. i would have offered £180 for it if it had dents etc and needed time spent on it.

I'd like to do exactly the same as ADR, and for the same reasons. I have not only spoken to, bought cues from and had repairs/alterations attended to by Dave, I have also recommended Dave, as a cuemaker and a fair and honest guy, to any number of people looking for a cue. I've also sold and swapped cues with Dave, and, while he does drive a hard bargain (it is his livelihood, after all), he is scrupulously honest and fair.

People seem to have forgotten that the JP needed worked on, as it had dents, before it could be re-sold; if Dave is working on that cue, then he's not building cues for customers, so who pays for his time?? He's not running a charity, he's running his own business, and if he doesn't make a profit then he doesn't eat.

I think that what you have to look at is this: Dave offered a choice of cue for the JP which was on sale, and this maple cue was the one chosen out of a selection. Dave had offered £200 for the JP, and still gave the maple, which, with extensions, was worth £250. In my book that's a fair and good deal. As soon as there was a problem, which was not of Dave's making, then he bent over backwards to make things right: offering to build a new cue as a goodwill gesture is not something that a lot of people would have done but he did it as that's the sort of guy he is, and anyone saying Dave is a conman is bang out of order and should apologise for what was said.

[RGCirencester]

I'd like to do exactly the same as ADR, and for the same reasons. I have not only spoken to, bought cues from and had repairs/alterations attended to by Dave, I have also recommended Dave, as a cuemaker and a fair and honest guy, to any number of people looking for a cue. I've also sold and swapped cues with Dave, and, while he does drive a hard bargain (it is his livelihood, after all), he is scrupulously honest and fair.

People seem to have forgotten that the JP needed worked on, as it had dents, before it could be re-sold; if Dave is working on that cue, then he's not building cues for customers, so who pays for his time?? He's not running a charity, he's running his own business, and if he doesn't make a profit then he doesn't eat.

I think that what you have to look at is this: Dave offered a choice of cue for the JP which was on sale, and this maple cue was the one chosen out of a selection. Dave had offered £200 for the JP, and still gave the maple, which, with extensions, was worth £250. In my book that's a fair and good deal. As soon as there was a problem, which was not of Dave's making, then he bent over backwards to make things right: offering to build a new cue as a goodwill gesture is not something that a lot of people would have done but he did it as that's the sort of guy he is, and anyone saying Dave is a conman is bang out of order and should apologise for what was said.

What he said!

Welcome back online Keith hadn't heard from you in ages again

[eaoin11]

I'd agree that Dave does drive a hard bargain, given that he offered 200quid for the cue and sold it very soon after for 350. I think he probably had at least one customer already lined up for such a cue and knew he would get 300 upwards.

A lot of people are willing to pay that or more for a good example of an older Parris cue, but vendors like Dave or ADR can't make a profit by paying market value.

[DandyA]

I'd like to do exactly the same as ADR, and for the same reasons. I have not only spoken to, bought cues from and had repairs/alterations attended to by Dave, I have also recommended Dave, as a cuemaker and a fair and honest guy, to any number of people looking for a cue. I've also sold and swapped cues with Dave, and, while he does drive a hard bargain (it is his livelihood, after all), he is scrupulously honest and fair.

People seem to have forgotten that the JP needed worked on, as it had dents, before it could be re-sold; if Dave is working on that cue, then he's not building cues for customers, so who pays for his time?? He's not running a charity, he's running his own business, and if he doesn't make a profit then he doesn't eat.

I think that what you have to look at is this: Dave offered a choice of cue for the JP which was on sale, and this maple cue was the one chosen out of a selection. Dave had offered £200 for the JP, and still gave the maple, which, with extensions, was worth £250. In my book that's a fair and good deal. As soon as there was a problem, which was not of Dave's making, then he bent over backwards to make things right: offering to build a new cue as a goodwill gesture is not something that a lot of people would have done but he did it as that's the sort of guy he is, and anyone saying Dave is a conman is bang out of order and should apologise for what was said.

well said Keith ... I have never met, bought or had any other contact with Dave Coutts at all but what you've just said above has the ring of truth about it ...

[DandyA]

I'd agree that Dave does drive a hard bargain, given that he offered 200quid for the cue and sold it very soon after for 350.

and your point is?

say, for instance, you buy a bunch of bananas at Sainsbury for £1.50 ... are you saying they should be prepared to buy them back from you for £1.50 ...

don't be silly ... I very much doubt Sainsbury paid 50p for those bananas so why should they buy back your second hand bunch for that money?

you are, of course, perfectly entitled to sell them yourself to another "end-user" for £1.50 or even more, but don't expect them to offer you more than 50p ...

[ADR147]

I'd agree that Dave does drive a hard bargain, given that he offered 200quid for the cue and sold it very soon after for 350. I think he probably had at least one customer already lined up for such a cue and knew he would get 300 upwards.

A lot of people are willing to pay that or more for a good example of an older Parris cue, but vendors like Dave or ADR can't make a profit by paying market value.

market value when dave or i get a cue is not the same as when we have worked on it - afterwards it is as new!

[poolqjunkie]

The client list and the reputation that Dave or ADR147 has is their asset and does not come easily or cheaply.

They have to make a profit to do what they do--if the buyer does not like it or thinks he can do it himself, he does not need to go through a middle trader.

Besides, you need to take into the account the risk factor, that they have to pay out either cash or a cue to get the cue for sale--if they cannot sell the cue, or if the cue is lost, or if the cue has some problem, or whatever, they are the one who has to deal with that. That risk factor is also worth something.

Personally, if I want to sell a cue, I would try to sell it to the end buyer. I will sell it to a middle person only if I need the money real bad or if he is buying in volume. I know he will only offer me a price on which he can make a profit, or else he has no incentive to give me the money up front.

I dont see what is wrong with that.

[eaoin11]

market value when dave or i get a cue is not the same as when we have worked on it - afterwards it is as new!

Fair enough, that did occur to me after I posted that comment. I don't know what condition the cue was in or how much work would have gone into it before selling it on.

£1.50 ... are you saying they should be prepared to buy them back from you for £1.50 ...

Obviously no... and Dave did a trade after all so my apologies for an irrelevant point. I was only thinking that barring major problems such as cracks etc I would not be happy selling a good JP of that vintage for 200.

[ADR147]

if you ebayed it that is what you would end up with after fees etc.

[JC147GY]

I would just like to put everybody straight on this, Dave is a great cue maker, a very genuine person and loyal to all his customers.

THE JP was swapped for customised cue that dave had added his finl touches to, this is why Dave was obviously happy to place his name on the cue.

IF THE CUE WAS TO BE MADE BY ANY CUE MAKER SWAPPED FOR THE JP IT WOULD COST BETWEEN £400-£500 POUND AND THAT WOULD BE THE LISTED PRICE FROM ANY CUEMAKER,WITH ALL THE WOOD USED AND THE CRAFTSMANSHIP AND TIME SPENT.

The cue was swapped by jamie and he was more than happy with the cue he received for the parris.

Jamie has since spoken to Dave Coutts and he has kindly agreed to make a cue, This has all got out of control and all the entries that ave been made have been from people jumpng on the band wagon and joining in on the sledging, the matter has been resolved between jamie and dave.

At the end of the day Dave has not just shown that he is great cue maker, but he as also proven how much of a man he is resolving this with jamie.

I think that everyone of you should make a post on thisforum with an apoligy to dave.

Dave is a great man so on my behalf i would like to highlight to you all that the matter is resolved.

The deal made was between jamie and dave.

this matter is finished and it has been resolved by dave making a cue that willl be of quality materials and craftmanship., Dave Coutts will still trade with quality and honesty.

Sorted

thanks

[goshow]

I would just like to put everybody straight on this, Dave is a great cue maker, a very genuine person and loyal to all his customers.

THE JP was swapped for customised cue that dave had added his finl touches to, this is why Dave was obviously happy to place his name on the cue.

IF THE CUE WAS TO BE MADE BY ANY CUE MAKER SWAPPED FOR THE JP IT WOULD COST BETWEEN £400-£500 POUND AND THAT WOULD BE THE LISTED PRICE FROM ANY CUEMAKER,WITH ALL THE WOOD USED AND THE CRAFTSMANSHIP AND TIME SPENT.

The cue was swapped by jamie and he was more than happy with the cue he received for the parris.

Jamie has since spoken to Dave Coutts and he has kindly agreed to make a cue, This has all got out of control and all the entries that ave been made have been from people jumpng on the band wagon and joining in on the sledging, the matter has been resolved between jamie and dave.

At the end of the day Dave has not just shown that he is great cue maker, but he as also proven how much of a man he is resolving this with jamie.

I think that everyone of you should make a post on thisforum with an apoligy to dave.

Dave is a great man so on my behalf i would like to highlight to you all that the matter is resolved.

The deal made was between jamie and dave.

this matter is finished and it has been resolved by dave making a cue that willl be of quality materials and craftmanship., Dave Coutts will still trade with quality and honesty.

Sorted

thanks

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[eaoin11]

if you ebayed it that is what you would end up with after fees etc.

Granted, but I tend to think that's partly because the buyer can't physically see the cue before purchasing it.
It is a convenient way to sell though.