buying a cue in England

[ChatLag]

sorry for the double post ..But why is peradon so cheap then??...is it machine spliced cues?

You can choose in the cue wizard if it is machine or hand spliced.
They will use for sure production machines to make cues in high quantities. And I think they produce them in Thailand or China.

[Krypton]

don't want to be unfriendly, Core, but I think you should NOT order a made to measure cue (yet).

Keep trying out a few more. The reasons I say this are as follows:

1. You are not sure about the design, as you're showing various pictures, especially of very FANCY cues. If you're not 100% sure, it might turn out you get annoyed with the design very soon.

2. then you change from maple to ash shaft within a few posts (have you been playing with both? then you should know what fits you better and order THAT!). The looks and feeling are different, be sure before you just order something that sounds cool.

3. where do you get the idea from that the shaft has to be kiln dried? that does not matter, at least not to you as the player, but to the cue maker, if so. Leave it to him. But then, if you want a good enough cue maker to build your cue that he knows these differences, then you got to pay him.

4. are you REALLY sure about the specs? then set up an email as soon as you are really sure, and just email the makers for an offer. but as i said, try out a few different cues first.

5. i just have a feeling you're not that experienced with cues (no offense intended, as we all started like that). there are a few hints:

- the term 'full size length' to be 147cm... where do you have that from? a cue can be made to literally any lenght...
- the mentioned 'kiln dried' thingy. where do you know from that this is important?
- the 'brass joint/ferrule' stressing - the cue maker will use his normal joint, whether you like it or not. it might be brass anyway (almost a certainty), but then, how do you know this is THAT important?
- you talk about tolerance in tip diameter, while ordering a standard. how many different tip sizes have you been trying out?
- you want a 'specially selected fine shaft'. selected by what? what exactly do you prefer that has to be selected?


Sorry, your whole post sounds as the offers on ebay for the cheap chinese mark amazons (and the like) cues do. mentioning tons of unimportant stuff, but not a single thing that shows me you really are 100% sure of what a playing behavior you'd expect from a good cue. not a single word like 'I don't like it butt heavy', or 'I don't give a Fwwwk about arrows', or 'I really need thickish taper'...

but then, you know exactly how long the telescopic extension should be...


(sorry, I indeed WAS quite rude, but once you've sorted these things out, you might be thankful)


BTW Chatlag: your 666th POST, may the evil be with you!!!!

[Core]

heya Krypton


you did't hurt me let me say that....in my book rude has other dimentions

Nhow still thx for repleying to this thread....
first off...i admit ,that i did't know the assembly stages and names...knowing the full details how a cue is made...
and yea i have only played with cheap cues...so...hence this new one.

true i changed wood and patterns but who does't....i know ash is harder and will be able to get more effect from the ball.NO?


as for maple....it does't have the sturdyness as the ash does nor has it the grain in it....it is very smooth wood.and yes i've played both...just not all that much.

bout my design....i first did't want the ebony splicing and veneers but i saw that it is possible to make my countryflag in the butt...so i did....notthing more....not that you have had anything to say about this...this is my personal preference no?

and you are talking about me using these kinds of words....but i mearly used cuewizard for this...like stated above....thats why those words came up....so give me a rest there ...i just used it for a better description to explain my design and wishes.

i'm not gonne argue with you thats not why i am here
coz i personally know the weight i want, and i know the thickness of the butt
Nway....i just said i don't like to argue ..so i'll leave it be.


so in one sence you are right...i don't have much XP with a handmade cues.....so what?....does that mean i never can order one....




Nway i did get a offer from Glover Cues...He said he'll produce this nice little baby for bout 390 £.....425£ with a olive 6"" inch butt

[Krypton]

I explicitly said 'not (yet)', not that you'd never be able to. Anyone can order a handmade cue. I just wanted to advise you to first sort out the specs a little bit better only, to save you money

I'm glad you don't feel too offended, because that really wasn't my intention. If you know what weight and butt diameter you want, that's a good thing, keep it on.

(Then, I won't argue about your maple statement here , as that would have no end. We've been trough that many times, just fact: I does NOT play differently because it's maple, but because it's another cue. Both can be made to play almost the same, by a good cue maker)

[Terry Davidson]

Core:

My recommendation would be to wait for awhile before you order a custom-made cue and invest 500quid or more. Try out as many of your friend's cues as you can, along with any club cues you can get your hands on to find out what you like. Once you know that, then order a custom. Or visit the UK and go to one of the showrooms and try out various stock cues for a day until you find something that feels really good to you.

In ordering cues there are a few important things to specify and the rest is just fine tuning. A list of these is as follows:

Ferrule size and type, i.e. - brass, 9.5mm, black fiber - 10mm
Shaft wood type - maple or ash (forget the 'kiln dried or naturally aged stuff')
Weight - anywhere from 17oz to 20oz although most good players these days are right around 18 to 18.5oz
Butt diameter - how does the butt feel in your hand, 29.5 being the general standard although some like it bigger and some smaller than that. Look at the size of your hands and if they're big go for maybe 31mm diamter, or small then 28mm.
Balance point - do you prefer butt heavy or having the balance point ahead of your grip and into the shot more, like say 14 to 17in from the end of the butt.
Butt inserts are up to you, not a problem with the country colours although you pay extra for each set of points.
Length - you said I believe 60in, which is very long for a snooker cue unless you happen to be 6ft8in in height or have gorilla-like very long arms. 57in is the normal used for a 5ft10in to 6ft tall player with some having 57.7 or 58in.
A 60in cue would have to be made a little thicker in the taper of the shaft to eliminate any 'whip' in the shaft and any good cuemaker should be able to get that right for you.
You could also specify tip type, like Elm Master Hard or Talismann Soft or Blue Diamond but that is easily corrected.
For ash, some like to specify close and straight grained ash but that only means the piece of ash has come from nearer the centre of the tree. I myself only specify straight-grained ash if I order a cue.

Cheers,
Terry

[bkpaul]

Core:

Balance point - do you prefer butt heavy or having the balance point ahead of your grip and into the shot more, like say 14 to 17in from the end of the butt.

Terry, wouldn't you say a more centrally balanced cue makes for smoother cueing and as such better timing for the shot?

I know its personal preference but I have always gone for more centrally balanced than butt weighted.

My view is if its butt heavy you are more likely to raise the tip during or very shortly after the contact just by natural gravity effects.

This of cause will be more apparent when you complete your follow through and can be a contributing factor to the cue jumping out of the bridge for some people.

I have had many people come to me where they have a butt heavy cue and their cue jumps from the bridge (sometimes minor sometimes more pronounced) but on almost every occasion when they have played with a more centrally balanced cue this doesn't happen.

of cause there are other reasons for this as we know but like I said it can be a contributing factor.

The same players often display a problem cueing tight from a cusion or over a ball.....

[Core]

thanks for your concern all ....i do appreciate the help !! alot !
but i've been playing for atleast 4-5 years in a club and i do know what i'm talking to a surten point.....i just don't know the words in englisch thats all...thats why i came here, to do the rechearch on the cue assembly...i also wanted to know who is capable of doing this.

if you realy want to know i also ave been going to a store here and i did try alot of cues before i came here asking for help....

i like it to be 12 inch from the butt coz i like a heavy butt....i tend to twitch a little to the left when cueing and a heavy butt does that less with the cue action....if that makes sence to you?

i have given every specification in the above statements ....so i realy don't know what to specifie more?

i myself am 1.80 m so a 58" (147 cm) is just to my size....the weight i found out in the store so like the thickness of the butt (like it to be 29mm)

the one thing i don't know notthing of is the type pommerance...i do know that i like it to be 9.5 mm coz with a smaller tip i tend to have more jumpshots when playing backspin shots....it just feels better playing...Notthing i can explain though.


ohw yea for whoem would like to know....i did get a quote from parris cues.....it said it would cost me 693£ to make this beauty.


Thanks again for helping out....if there still doubt i should not buy a mandmade cue coz i know notthing about the subject...do speak your mind,i can handle it.

[hatterboard]

It really does scare me, the number of people that buy cues and in particular snooker cues without actually trying them out first....

I just couldn't do it!.

that does beg the question, many on here appear to order a cue to have made. how can yer try a tree trunk out ?

[KeithinFrance]

Hey Core,

So which version of the cue have you decided on, then? The version with or without ebony?

The reason I ask is that if you want the cue to be 18 oz or more, then it'd be better to have an ebony butt to give 'natural' weight, rather than have to add lots of lead weights during the process.

Also, in general, maple is more sturdy than ash. If you want the cue to have a 'sturdy' feel, then you'd be ok with a nice piece of maple, or a very stiff piece of ash; in either case,you'd better specify that in your request.

You said you'd like a heavy butt because you twitch - seriously, you'd be better ordering a cue which is better balanced (16" - 18") and getting someone to help you with your stance and technique. I know Belgium has some very good players; try and get some coaching to improve your way of playing.

If Tony Glover gave you a quote for £395, £425 with a 6" olive mini-butt, then that's a good price, IMO. Tony makes a great cue; I would recommend him to anyone. If you decide to order from him, then you'll give yourself a wonderful birthday present. Does his price include the extending extension?

One last piece of advice, if I may: contact Robin Cook and ask him for his quote.

Good luck!

[Core]

hello again

yes,i decided to have it made with the ebony splice and matching veneers representing my country flag.

thanks for explaining the wood selection...but i meant that the ash is harder then the maple...and that gives more power to the cue and cue action...atleast in my case.so i'll be shure to specifie it again to the maker

and aamof i will be taking coach lessons real soon...i've been askt to compete against Belgium clubs..but have to prove myself first that i worthy of getting lessons....coz i've had a feeling i came to a stop and can't get higher......nhow i realy wanted a disigned cue for a long time already...but i waited atleast 3 years to give in to that thought

yea i think its a good price quote...i think i will be ordering it next monday
it does't include a extention though

[bkpaul]

that does beg the question, many on here appear to order a cue to have made. how can yer try a tree trunk out ?

They do and I never have, each to their own!.

If a custom made cue is the chosen way then all that can be done is copy one you find that suits you, but the two will not be identical...

Its the reason so many custom cues are then sold or returned at a loss.

[Terry Davidson]

bkpaul:

Not sure where you got the idea I was advocating a butt-heavy cue. I was just explaining to Core the various cue ordering options he should consider. My own preference is to have the balance point somewhere near the middle of the points, or somewhere between 14-17in. To get further up the butt than that would mean much lighter wood in the butt and some weight placed forward of the points somehow. (I do have a very old cue here, not sure of the make, which has large ebony 'diamonds' placed above the splice to get the balance point further along the cue.)

Core:
I would highly recommend you stop the 'twitching' by either spreading your stance a bit or else concentrating on loosening your grip a bit and keeping the chin on the cue all the time, from feathering to through the backswing and all the way through to the end of the delivery.

If you try and keep your head very still and down on the cue at the very end of the delivery for a couple of seconds that should stop that 'twitch'. Have a look at Shaun Murphy who is an excellent example of keeping your head down at the end of the shot until the balls stop moving.

Also, try a put a bit more weight on your straight leg (don't know if you're right or left handed). If right handed then put 60% of your weight on your right foot with the right leg straight, 30% on your left foot and have at least 18in between the centre of the heels (that's a sideways measurement) and the remaining 20% should be on your left forearm and bridge at the base of the palm but with your fingers pushed into the cloth too. In addition, try and get your left armpit down as low as you comfortably can and all of these little points should get rid of that 'twitch' unless you would like to play like Alex Higgins did in the 80's that is.

Terry

[bkpaul]

I didn't Terry, I was asking your opinion as to whether you thought a balanced cue was more preferable to a butt heavy cue from a physics point of view.

[Terry Davidson]

bkpaul:

And the answer is YES. My present cue, which is a one-piece and is a loose copy of a Burwat Champion, has the balance point about in the middle of the ebony points and about 15in from the base of the butt.

I find this cue to be probably the best cue I've ever had in my hands, although I have taken it from it's original weight of 17.3oz up to 19oz by adding about 2oz worth of lead tape centered around the cue's balance point so I could keep the balance point where it was originally at 17oz.

I've tried butt-heavy cues and I just don't like them whereas I find a cue with the weight a little more forward seems to encourage a smoother stroke, especially on power shots when every one has a tendency to grip that cue too tight and whack the lightshades sometimes (not me of course as I keep my chin on the cue until after the balls stop moving as I recommend to all my students)

Terry

[poolqjunkie]

I think if you like to order a cue you should go for it, and if you dont like it you can order another one.
Joking aside, I believe you will probably find the new cue much better than your old cheaper cue as long as you have the specifications right.
If you dont know, then just order one with the common specs, that will most likely fit you as it has with most other players. If you really dont like it, it is also easier to sell.
Maple and ash can both be very "powerful" or "responsive" really depends on the piece of wood, the density and so on, but I think the biggest difference is really the "sound", which is some times referred to as the "hit", and the look--just order something that you like in terms of look and hit and you will be fine, there is no right or wrong.
If you are getting coaching, then you will only become a better player with a well built cue.
My one piece of advice for whatever it is worth is:
If you like your cue, then stick with it. What other people think about your cue is just their opinions. As you become a better player, you will be more sensitive to the subtle differences between cues and it could get harder to find the right cue--so if you like this new cue, just try to get on with it, and work on improving your game rather than changing your cue all the time--unless if there is something seriously worng.