Why does weight of a cue matter ?

[jrc750]

I think maybe this is being looked at too closely here.

Weight is only one aspect relating to why a cue does what it does. You could line up 30 different cues of the same weight and very similar specs, only to find that 6 of them were excellent, another 16 were very ordinary and 8 of them were complete garbage.

What can we deduce from weight then?

The simple issue for most players in relation to weight is one that provides a feeling of comfort when we are over the table addressing the ball. What happens when we strike the ball is often another story altogether, and, is in no way going to be definite and predictable performance simply due to the weight being 'correct' for our taste alone.

Generally for snooker, as most will know, a cue needs to be somewhere between 16 and 19 ounces to offer us the ability to play most shots with a degree of ease, although this varies from cue to cue. Some actually like to use above 19oz's, while some can and do use below 16oz's. The problems that can arise through weight are probably most noticeable outside these extremes, but, it's not exactly so in every case.

Many believe that cues with more weight will offer more power, more ability to move the white ball about, and so on. This is an absolute myth and is just not true. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that cues above a certain weight, can and often do make a cue feel a little dead and lacking in response, especially when striking low in the white. Oddly enough, these same cues can tend to have the most incredible power when playing shots with lots of topspin, but again, it's not always the case.

The feel and response a cue can offer is much more to do with the 'overall' package, and not simply a question of how heavy a cue is.

As an exampe, if we had two ash cues of the same specs, length - thickness - weight, etc, then is it fair to argue that they'll behave the same?......no, it isn't.

But.....

I would bet that if one of these cues had a shaft which was made from very hard and heavy timber, and one was of much lighter softer timber, that the one with the softer timber would be more repsonsive than the one with the heavy, hard timber, especially when striking low in the cueball to create backspin.

This one element (shaft density) in one of these otherwise indentical cues, can show how weight is not the be all and end all of cue performance.

Sounds as though its very very difficult to find your personal ideal cue then, i take it thats why so many high end cues are constantly for sale on ebay ? although as i said earlier ime not a great player, so i probably couldnt distinguish between the 30 cues of the same specs.

[jonnylovessn8ker]

thats why ppl keep going on cue shopping.

i think there was a thread some time ago titled "how many have you had"

i recall some dude got like 2 cues per season or something.

some ppl have loads of cues, just looking for that right one.
some ppl want to have a collection

we all want to find our "the one"
its like finding the perfect wife or ..wives :P

[trevs1]

Excellent detailed post as ever..........

I agree more weight doesn't mean more cue power........i find it kills my cue power the heavier a cue is........but interestingly when the cue balls tight on the cushion ......i can play these much better with a heavier cue.......

That's just what you have found with those cues which you have used, and is maybe due to the fact that the better cues have generally been a little heavier than those cues which were not so trustworthy.

On another note, a cue with decent weight distribution will sit flatter when you're cueing off the cushion, whereas a butt heavy cue will feel even lighter at the front when you've got your grip hand shfited up the butt to allow for the shorter amount of cue extending from your bridge hand. This higher grip has to happen when you cue off the cushion, which leaves a fair amount of cue butt sticking out of the back of your grip hand, which in turn means that the front of the cue can feel a little floaty.

It's tricky to make accurate predictions on what's happening to individual players as there are so many variables.

[jrc750]

its like finding the perfect wife or ..wives :P

Is there such a thing as a perfect wife ? (without being rude)

[trevs1]

Sounds as though its very very difficult to find your personal ideal cue then, i take it thats why so many high end cues are constantly for sale on ebay ? although as i said earlier ime not a great player, so i probably couldnt distinguish between the 30 cues of the same specs.

I wouldn't agree that lots of these cues are for sale, but some are yes.
The sale of these 'high end' cues is likely to be due to people believing they will improve their game dramatically by buying a custom made cue, when that just does not happen usually.

The game is 95% about the person behind the cue, BUT, what I've always told people is that a really good cue makes it far easier for a player to get his/her ability and experience down on the table, whereas a very poor cue will make that much much more difficult to do with consistency.

A great player will still be a great player, even with a bad cue, it's just that it makes it harder to do ALL he'd like to do consistently. A novice player will still be a novice player, even with the most outstanding cue, and, will still struggle to improve like everyone else. A great cue will only help him improve to a level his ability, his mind and his motivation will allow, it won't do any of it for him.

[CueAntW147]

That's just what you have found with those cues which you have used, and is maybe due to the fact that the better cues have generally been a little heavier than those cues which were not so trustworthy.

On another note, a cue with decent weight distribution will sit flatter when you're cueing off the cushion, whereas a butt heavy cue will feel even lighter at the front when you've got your grip hand shfited up the butt to allow for the shorter amount of cue extending from your bridge hand. This higher grip has to happen when you cue off the cushion, which leaves a fair amount of cue butt sticking out of the back of your grip hand, which in turn means that the front of the cue can feel a little floaty.

It's tricky to make accurate predictions on what's happening to individual players as there are so many variables.

Understand .........this makes perfect sense .......it's very tricky as players we all will have had different experiences & thoughts on things & drawn our own conclusions & maybe not even know why or the reasons behind it.

Your point on shaft density is an important one...when i first looked at this it's amazing how shafts can vary in weight despite being same size etc....and i'm sure this is a major part you consider when selecting timber for cues...

Amongst no doubt all the other factors......

Appreciate all your comments though in giving a better overall understanding for everyone....as ever the voice of sense & reason

[inevermissblue]

Cue weight!

Hi i can quite comfortably go along with all of this physics stuff to try to explain the necessity to have a heavier cue. Although mine is a measly 16 oz approximately. This however doesn't impede my ability and subsequent results. As i am more than happy with the way i play.
Weight is an important part of a cue, no question. Though not absolute. So i wonder if actual "grip" is more important and to the point?

[jonnylovessn8ker]

well said trevor!!!

[trevs1]

thats why ppl keep going on cue shopping.

i think there was a thread some time ago titled "how many have you had"

i recall some dude got like 2 cues per season or something.

some ppl have loads of cues, just looking for that right one.
some ppl want to have a collection

we all want to find our "the one"
its like finding the perfect wife or ..wives :P

The reasons behind why people buy lots and lots of cues are many and various.

I know players who can't make a 30 break who buy cues like there's no tomorrow, and I also know some who have won major ranking titles who do the same. Clearly they do it for different reasons, but both are justified in doing so if they - a) - can afford it, and - b) enjoy doing so.

Some do it to seek out that 'special' cue (which doesn't exist in all honesty) and some do it because it gives them enjoyment to try out new cues, or to appreciate the quality of a beautiful hand made product. There's a myriad of reasons why people buy this or that and cues are not too different from many other products. enthusiasts will always want to indulge in their passion, whatever that might be.

[trevs1]

Hi i can quite comfortably go along with all of this physics stuff to try to explain the necessity to have a heavier cue. Although mine is a measly 16 oz approximately. This however doesn't impede my ability and subsequent results. As i am more than happy with the way i play.
Weight is an important part of a cue, no question. Though not absolute. So i wonder if actual "grip" is more important and to the point?

There we go, a perfect example.

It's all important to a greater or lesser degree.

[sneaky_russian]

The reasons behind why people buy lots and lots of cues are many and various.

I know players who can't make a 30 break who buy cues like there's no tomorrow, and I also know some who have won major ranking titles who do the same. Clearly they do it for different reasons, but both are justified in doing so if they - a) - can afford it, and - b) enjoy doing so.

Some do it to seek out that 'special' cue (which doesn't exist in all honesty) and some do it because it gives them enjoyment to try out new cues, or to appreciate the quality of a beautiful hand made product. There's a myriad of reasons why people buy this or that and cues are not too different from many other products. enthusiasts will always want to indulge in their passion, whatever that might be.

I absolutely agree with that.
I also agree that about 95% depends on the person behind the cue.
But there still 5% left! In my opinion trying out different cues is very important.For example: i started to play with a house cue,it was perfect for me to learn.After a couple of months I realized that my game had improved a lot and that the house cue couldn't keep up with my game level anymore(it was too stiff and heavy).My next choise was graphite pool cue (for about 60-70$).I played with it for a year and it helped me to bring my game to the next level as well.But it was simply too light.The nex cue I bought was an older Joss.I bought it about a year ago and I loved it!I still have it and play with it but the tip seems to be to big (13mm) and balance point is not where I want it! So here I am looking for a new cue!!! =)))))
I guess what I wanted to say is that a cue is just a tool that helps you to bring your game to a certain level.As soon as you improve your game you'll realize what your 'perfect' cue is! So my suggestion is KEEP TRYING!

To go back to original thread... I think it is the balance point that matters the most...

[highbreak 8]

its all about balance , a 20 oz cue can feel lighter than a 17 oz cue in some cases , i prefer a lighter cue something that does not feel like im holding something when playing , a lighter cue is easier [ imo ] when playing shots near the cushion , but power shots the reverse applies . i say 17.5 to 18.5 is about the right weight . and as you get older [even though i have been shot down on this forum for saying this in the past get a slightly heavier cue as it helps with all the inperfections that age bestows .

[Watford]

But back to the physics.
The yanks use lighter cues to break because you can push it through faster. I'd always thought that you get more power with a heavier cue.

My cue was made to play both Snooker and UK pool. It's started off at 16 1/4oz I wanted a light cue because I feet it gives more control for the uk pool. I did find that it did feel a little light for snooker though. I can't explain it it just was somehow not right even though it was fine for pool. Trevor put another 1/2oz in it and it did feel better for snooker. I play snooker so infrequently now though I'm not sure I needed to bother. I think now it would feel more comfortable in more peoples hands though.

I can play with an average cue without too much ill effect but I don't know how people bash about with cues over 19oz.

[Terry Davidson]

I think Trevor is bang on in his assessment (and he'd better be with his rep). My own thoughts are that any piece of shaft wood, be it ash, maple or pear done with some kind of taper will have a small range of ideal weight for that shaft flex, and some cues will hit accurately at 16oz (maybe with a thin maple shaft) and some will hit accurately at 19oz (say with a slightly thicker ash shaft) and I believe all cues have an 'ideal' weight depending on their shaft characteristics.

For those of you wanting to experiment with cue weight I can recommend a very simple and easy way to not only add weight to a cue and play with it and then either add more weight or take off some of what you added. (Unfortunately I don't have an easy and temporary way to remove weight from a cue)

I use lead tape which can be purchased from any golf or tennis supply house. It weighs 1gm to the inch. I recently purchased a cue from a new cue maker in Canada but I prefer 19oz and this cue was 17oz. I added 2oz of lead tape (about 60in) evenly around the balance point to keep it in the same spot, about 17in from the butt.

With the tape you can also add it in front or behind the natural balance point to move that up the shaft or back in the butt, depending on your own likes.

The nice thing is, once you use the tape to get exactly what you like you can either leave it and play with the cue (as I am now) or else take it to a good cue doctor to add the weight of your ideal amount of tape right into your cue (that might not be possible with some cues, especially one-piece). Also, the tape can be removed easily with no damage to the cue

Terry

[Watford]

I've seen people stick blue tack on the butt.