Correct cue length 55"?

[cazmac1]

Ok will do should get down there sunday and will take a rubber band with me.

PS I'm in no hurry to get this done and will take my time before making any decision.
I have an added problem in that I have three different stances, I have made big breaks with all three different styles, each style of play changes my body shape and alters the distance between hand and tip.
Stance 1 and is my prefered style is like Jimmy white.
Stance 2 is my Stephen Hendery Style this has draw backs as is causes problems when the cue ball is further into the table( I think this is why hendry use to leave a big distance between white and object ball perfering the longer pot.
Stance 3 is my own and I play that with the bridge arm bent and have been told that I bend the arm too much. This stance has effect of leaving me with a long overhang.

I want to get some coaching and see what the coach has to say and see what stance he likes the best.
So I think I'll stick with the rubber band for now.

Thanks for the advice I'm sure I'll get it right soon:snooker:

[cueman25]

Ok will do should get down there sunday and will take a rubber band with me.

PS I'm in no hurry to get this done and will take my time before making any decision.
I have an added problem in that I have three different stances, I have made big breaks with all three different styles, each style of play changes my body shape and alters the distance between hand and tip.
Stance 1 and is my prefered style is like Jimmy white.
Stance 2 is my Stephen Hendery Style this has draw backs as is causes problems when the cue ball is further into the table( I think this is why hendry use to leave a big distance between white and object ball perfering the longer pot.
Stance 3 is my own and I play that with the bridge arm bent and have been told that I bend the arm too much. This stance has effect of leaving me with a long overhang.

I want to get some coaching and see what the coach has to say and see what stance he likes the best.
So I think I'll stick with the rubber band for now.

Thanks for the advice I'm sure I'll get it right soon:snooker:

That's the second person with a potential good high scoring game questioning their "basics".
The Key here in your case has to be the chopping and changing and the good ability with each. I find that pretty unique and ironically it is ultimately doing you no favours. I think it's taking your mind off what you really should be thinking about.
What we talking about here is getting you comfy and have a set up to do anything well consistently so. With this background you should actually have the cue length set up correct already, so it puzzles me.
Thinking that this cue length or that cue length could be at fault without following a method to find out...well, you do see i'm sure.
If I understand correctly, you play at various bridge /white distances.
I'd certainly choose your set up based on your natural game and how you approach your games. I would advocate a set up which leaves you with a high percentage scoring game (proven by results), because you are bound to be comfy as a result and also which allows you the freedom to play any type of tactical game.
Whether the basics are wrong or just the wrong kind for you.....well, who knows.
There are too many variables within the game without playing a large number to find a correlation between anything when proving anything you are considering changing.
Following the practice routines that Frank sets out are a measurable yardstick that can't be match play influenced and a set up which yields the best consistent results in practice has to be the right one, because under pressure you are certain to be most relaxed and therefore as most confident as possible.
You are questioning things because of ONE thing only - you are not scoring consistently above a certain point you wish to exceed. Help yourself by removing smokescreen distractions....like 3 stances.
Totally forget modeling yourself on any players set up, you don't have their body or mind. Now using their tactics and game approach is something else.
Be the best you, not a nearly best of someone else.
Good luck.

[cazmac1]

Once again an excellent reply Cueman. I agree with every thing you’ve said, the problem I have is that if I'm playing bad with one style I change at the drop of a hat. You’re absolutely right in what your saying and I should be focusing on why I'm playing bad instead of changing stances. I do have one style that is stronger and yields higher scoring and better consistency
I think you should consider being a coach as you get your points across very clearly and seem to have a very good understanding of the mechanics of the game. I would imagine that you play at quite a high standard, although I know the common school of thought suggests that good players don't make good coaches.
Any how thanks for the advice, off to the club now and will try and put your methods in practice

[cueman25]

Once again an excellent reply Cueman. I agree with every thing you’ve said, the problem I have is that if I'm playing bad with one style I change at the drop of a hat. You’re absolutely right in what your saying and I should be focusing on why I'm playing bad instead of changing stances. I do have one style that is stronger and yields higher scoring and better consistency
I think you should consider being a coach as you get your points across very clearly and seem to have a very good understanding of the mechanics of the game. I would imagine that you play at quite a high standard, although I know the common school of thought suggests that good players don't make good coaches.
Any how thanks for the advice, off to the club now and will try and put your methods in practice

Ah, reading that i'm tempted to say.....you're guilty as charged.
I think you grasp what's needed more than you know.
Do you enjoy the dabbling and being able to change things for the accomplishment and fun of it?
Some amateur photographers love the cameras and pixel peeping more than taking photos.
Snooker is definitely in the category of "know the theory, not so easy to do it".
Sounds as though you'll get there....but do you want to?

[Acrowot]

I think that the things that cueman25 has been posting, make a lot of sense and wish I were as able to communicate as well. It has made some very interesting reading.

Thank you cueman25 and may you pass on more of your valuable information.
:snooker:

[cazmac1]

I am guilty of changing things. But this is only because I'm trying to improve and not changing for the sake of changing.
That said I've just got back from the club and brought all three of my cues with me. I brought a pack of white sticky spots and stuck them on each cue at 12". I then addressed the white ball using all three of my stances and each cue. Every cue had much more over-hanged then the recommended 12", some as much as 16". So I put all the cues away except my TW cue and played a session of snooker with my friend. I made a mental note of where to hold the butt in order to achieve the 12". Now I got beat but was surprise how good the cue felt. I played ok considering that I was focusing more on where I was holding the cue rather than the balls. I have decided to cut down my cheap £80 Peradon cue and play with this for a few weeks and see how I get on.
Just one thing I like to add and that is I was really surprised to see how much 12” is, it just seems really short to me and if this is what most pros leave it something that I been doing wrong since I started playing again for the last 4 years

[cueman25]

I think that the things that cueman25 has been posting, make a lot of sense and wish I were as able to communicate as well. It has made some very interesting reading.

Thank you cueman25 and may you pass on more of your valuable information.
:snooker:

Happy to oblige.

There must be a shed load of people out there not following the Frank Callan
website advice (I have played with a lot). It's a simple game, take a piece of wood, hit one ball onto another into a pocket most of the time only a few feet away.....if only it was that simple.
Simple rules of set up.
But here's one many will not have even heard of, let alone tried.
Your eyes.
Everyone will either be even sighted, left or right eyed. Which are you?
Extend an arm and point to an object across the room with one eye closed.
Open the closed eye.
If you are still pointing at the object, then your sight is biased to that first eye, if the finger jumps away when you open the closed eye, you are biased with the eye you closed.
Even sighted with have no shift.
Where's this going?
You should naturally tend to want to have your dominate eye over the cue, but do a check by having someone check you cueing.
It's possible you do not place your dominate eye over the cue.
Even sighted players should have chin over the cue.
If the dominate eye is not over the cue, this can lead to cueing across the ball.

[cazmac1]

Hi all, I just thought I'd update you on my experiment with cutting down my cheap cue.
Now I cut 2" off the cue so that the was about 55.5", so when addressing the cue ball by just placing my hand down on the table then letting everything else fall into place so that I had 12" of cue over hanging my bridge hand. I got to say it didn't work for me. In theory by shorting the amount of cue over hanging my bridge my potting should have improved immediately. Now the reason for there being no improvement could be that the cue is crap and that by cutting it down I have messed up the balance. I would like to repeat the experiment using a made to measure cue and not one that’s being altered.
Now I still think the theory is sound, so after getting yet another thrashing tonight my practice partner said lets play a best of 5, so I got my TW cue out a decided to try a different approach. In stead of shorting the cue maybe I should straighten my bridge arm so that I achieve the 12" inch over hang. Now I have to say that by doing this I played much better and went on to win 3-2. So I go back to what you said in one of your earlier post (cueman25)
and that was, every thing else has to be correct in your stance in order for this to work. So I am going to concentrate more on straitening my bridge arm to achieve the correct hand to hand distance and overhang rather than shortening the cue. Hope you all followed that and I didn't bore you too much.

It leads me back to one inescapable conclusion and that is the only way forward is to get some coaching. I feel a visit to the snooker farm coming on.

Thank you cue man, I'm convinced your 100% right in what you’re saying It’s just how you achieve this that counts and it's not as simple as cutting a cue down to match a stance, which may in itself be incorrect.

[Acrowot]

cazmac1


If you decide to go to the Snooker Farm in the future. Let us know before you go. I am quite close to there.
:snooker:

[cueman25]

Hi all, I just thought I'd update you on my experiment with cutting down my cheap cue.
Now I cut 2" off the cue so that the was about 55.5", so when addressing the cue ball by just placing my hand down on the table then letting everything else fall into place so that I had 12" of cue over hanging my bridge hand. I got to say it didn't work for me. In theory by shorting the amount of cue over hanging my bridge my potting should have improved immediately. Now the reason for there being no improvement could be that the cue is crap and that by cutting it down I have messed up the balance. I would like to repeat the experiment using a made to measure cue and not one that’s being altered.
Now I still think the theory is sound, so after getting yet another thrashing tonight my practice partner said lets play a best of 5, so I got my TW cue out a decided to try a different approach. In stead of shorting the cue maybe I should straighten my bridge arm so that I achieve the 12" inch over hang. Now I have to say that by doing this I played much better and went on to win 3-2. So I go back to what you said in one of your earlier post (cueman25)
and that was, every thing else has to be correct in your stance in order for this to work. So I am going to concentrate more on straitening my bridge arm to achieve the correct hand to hand distance and overhang rather than shortening the cue. Hope you all followed that and I didn't bore you too much.

It leads me back to one inescapable conclusion and that is the only way forward is to get some coaching. I feel a visit to the snooker farm coming on.

Thank you cue man, I'm convinced your 100% right in what you’re saying It’s just how you achieve this that counts and it's not as simple as cutting a cue down to match a stance, which may in itself be incorrect.

I hope you measured and confirmed first that the 2" was needed to set the body up properly? If you found with your TW cue that to achieve the correct set up you had to hold up the butt, then with the cut down cue held on the end it would have felt very different if you have never held a cue there.
And an adjustment time will be needed.

The whole point of finding the correct cue length is comfort, balance, various alignment points.
There's quite a bit you have left out.
What the specs of the cue was to start with. I assume you didn't take it off the butt end (if you did it would have severely affected balance and weight, probably fatally) so who did the re-tipping?
Taking 2" off any cue regardless of size without assessing the balance, weight, tip size, tapering could result in a major difference and you should necessarily think it hasn't worked. The jump was too big too soon perhaps and a few games proves little.
So, the exercise is to find the right length that gets a good posture and arm alignment (back arm vertical, not lead arm bent or straight? Which for most people gets best results by having straight-ish, for consistency of gauging each time and rigidity).
Potting balls has little to do with it at this stage. As it will all take some getting used to.
If you are not used to the 10/12" distance and have changed up or down considerably, then that is probably what the problem was.
Sounds as though you've rushed things and need to check things out.

Find a coach who can be with you to watch you. It is possible you can't do this alone.

[cueman25]

Hi all, I just thought I'd update you on my experiment with cutting down my cheap cue.
Now I cut 2" off the cue so that the was about 55.5", so when addressing the cue ball by just placing my hand down on the table then letting everything else fall into place so that I had 12" of cue over hanging my bridge hand. I got to say it didn't work for me. In theory by shorting the amount of cue over hanging my bridge my potting should have improved immediately. Now the reason for there being no improvement could be that the cue is crap and that by cutting it down I have messed up the balance. I would like to repeat the experiment using a made to measure cue and not one that’s being altered.
Now I still think the theory is sound, so after getting yet another thrashing tonight my practice partner said lets play a best of 5, so I got my TW cue out a decided to try a different approach. In stead of shorting the cue maybe I should straighten my bridge arm so that I achieve the 12" inch over hang. Now I have to say that by doing this I played much better and went on to win 3-2. So I go back to what you said in one of your earlier post (cueman25)
and that was, every thing else has to be correct in your stance in order for this to work. So I am going to concentrate more on straitening my bridge arm to achieve the correct hand to hand distance and overhang rather than shortening the cue. Hope you all followed that and I didn't bore you too much.

It leads me back to one inescapable conclusion and that is the only way forward is to get some coaching. I feel a visit to the snooker farm coming on.

Thank you cue man, I'm convinced your 100% right in what you’re saying It’s just how you achieve this that counts and it's not as simple as cutting a cue down to match a stance, which may in itself be incorrect.

Hmmm. If you are now straightening your arm to achieve 12", and all things being equal, then you must have been over the distance. Going beyond 12" (and 10 for some) drastically reduces white hitting ability. But you've gone the other way which will still need an adjustment time.
This has to be factored in as a reason for failure.

If you have been using the TW cue set at the right body position and lead arm back down the cue more than 12, and hand on butt end, then all you have done is swop for a smaller cue......

Yes, you've confused me, which takes some doing.

[cazmac1]

Thanks Cueman, I think I could go on doing the wrong things forever unless I get some coaching so until I do I will put any further experiments on hold I make regular 70 and 80 breaks and had two 90's at xmass I also had a nice 75 in the pink ribbon qualifiers at the Brighton club. What I'm searching for is consistency. yet in trying to obtain this sometimes I think I do over egg things and am not 100% focused on the table.

Hi Acorwot, I'm certainly going to the farm; hope to do this before the end of the year, works picking up so I should be able to save a few pennies. There are also some other guys on the forum interested as well I’ll keep you posted

[cazmac1]

Hi Cueman, Not sure that your interested but, I went down the club tonignt and took the cue I shorten and my TW and repeated the experiment on the line up.
When playing with the cue I shorten I could hardly pot a ball and to be honest it was like playing with a broom handle.
When I swopped back to my TW I cleared the line up with ease ( holding the cue higher up the butt to achive the 12"). So I think your right and I'm going to keep playing this way. I think for the best results I will have to have a cue hand made but for now I'm just going to see how I get on.
PS what is the shortest cue that you think is possible to play snooker with.

[cueman25]

Hi Cueman, Not sure that your interested but, I went down the club tonignt and took the cue I shorten and my TW and repeated the experiment on the line up.
When playing with the cue I shorten I could hardly pot a ball and to be honest it was like playing with a broom handle.
When I swopped back to my TW I cleared the line up with ease. So I think your right and I'm going to keep playing this way. I think for the best results I will have to have a cue hand made but for now I'm just going to see how I get on.
PS what is the shortest cue that you think is possible to play snooker with.

Hi,
As I said, there is quite a bit of info missing, especially your height.
When I went from 57.25 to 56, I couldn't hit a barn door for 15mins, honestly. And the tip went from 9 to 9.7 and a thicker shaft taper all of which will make a huge difference. Holding the butt at the end will feel so different too if you have not done so previously.
I soon settled down though.
At the risk of repeating myself (since the info i've asked for is not forthcoming) this is all about getting everything in sync. Having the ability to make high breaks, if memory serves, is not the be all for you? You crave consistency? Without seeing your set up I can only get you to do the measuring yourself.
Changing cues like that will have that result briefly, it's to be expected.
Certainly a shot lined up with a 24" cue would not have the same accuracy as a 48" cue, or is it at least open to error more.
But I see no problem with a cue down to 55 for snooker on a 12' bed. Holding a cue down butt to be comfy will give x distance between the hands, this actually is no different to have a shorter cue and holding the butt on the end to achieve the same x distance (bridge hand in same shaft position).
Without the TW specs and info on you I can't say any more, other than if I am honest you seem to be going about this slightly the wrong way.
But I could be wrong, just going on your feedback though.
When I made the change, I made sure that the groundwork was spot on, the cue specs were changed to what the expert source required given my physique and by that I don't just mean my height as this has more to do with the arms than anything else. Why?, because it's the distance on set up between the hands that counts.
If you didn't take the weight into consideration, the problem could lie there. Most will play well with a slight playing adjustment to a cue that is within 1oz, after that (or even less), a player could take very unkindly to a change.
Check the cue weights too. Do the taper change drastically?
There's too many unknown factors here.
But these are all secondary factors and can all be smokescreens!!
Look, this is all about a basic starting point. Getting you absolutely in balance and comfy via the right cue length which I urge you to do via the method I outlined.
Having done this compare each making sure that the hand distances are set correctly. Which cue allows you to have the best balance body and lets you feel most relaxed, simply feathering back on forth with YOUR EYES CLOSED?
When you've worked that out and proved your true cue length, then you can decide the weight, taper, tip etc.
But, like me you could have been playing and trained your body with the wrong cue length and if that's been so for years....well, without getting the basics spot on, the changes simply won't work and requires possibly some perseverance even if you do.
Remember, the change was welcomed by my body because I wasn't giving it a chance by using a cue that was too long.....but only because I had no reference point to hold. I was ping ponging my hands all over the place and therefore my body position had no consistency.
Use the TW with your hands set at the right distances and put a band higher up on the butt as is needed and make sure your hand hits that spot (between third and little finger worked best for me, but set it as you like best) everytime.
Prove what is comfy. Maybe you need to stick with the TW held in a different way, but you'll have some butt sticking out of the back of the hand and theory (not proven) says less cue ball spin is achieved.
I think that's as much as I can do for you. Mine's a pint and that's right where i'm off.

[nrage]

** Bear in mind that any overhand out of the hand will hinder some spin and screw shots to some degree if more than an inch (so experts say).

You don't happen to have a link to some info on this do you? I am quite interested in the mechanics of it all so this comment interested me Plus there is at least 1 inch maybe 2 out the back of my hand, and I do have some trouble getting a lot of screw so maybe this has something to do with it.

p.s. Thanks for the mention of the "Frank Callan" website in this thread, I've been reading it, it's got some great advice on there.