Correct cue length 55"?

[nrage]

" Yep, but having a vertical forearm at address position is way more important at this stage. Experimenting with a shift in the balance point can come later if I find I have any trouble i.e. getting through the ball.

Is there a recognised 'best' balance point ratio to cue length? (assuming orthodox bridge and grip positions)."


......one last try.
To answer the above statements correctly.
You have already shifted the natural balance point of the cue as it was made by using it "up the butt".
You (I assume) intend to learn, be coached, improve your game with this set up. Presumably, once all avenues have been explored (or not) you may at some point in the future have a shorter cue (or this one altered) made and then hold the butt in the correct position (do you see any top pros holding the cue 3" up the butt?).
If you intend progressing far down the line, cue shortening is about as radical as you could get and anything you have "ingrained" will be all the harder to remove.
To make an analogy.
A cricketer learns and plays all his matches holding the bat half way down the handle because it's a bit too long, he gets by and when he gets "found out" in the county league for lack of shot playing range, can't pass 10.
He then makes the shift to the right position......out first ball every time.
Think about it.
Amen.

Well.. you'll always have a little trouble with a new cue until you get used to it, just recall Stephen Hendry 2 years back at the crucible.

Provided I only changed the cue length, and kept all other factors the same i.e. balance point, weight, tip size, butt size, finish, etc.. (some of those factors are probably not at all important IMO) then I doubt I'd have any trouble adjusting to the shorter cue.

eg. A 2" shorter cue with a balance point at 17" (which I now know is fairly standard after a google/search of these forums).

Just to be clear, I would not hold a shorter cue 3" up the butt, I would hold it so that my grip arm was vertical and my bridge was 11.5" from the tip (as I do currently). This is how I would hold any cue you passed me, with the exception of a cue shorter than 51" as I would not be able to get the correct hand-to-hand distance and would therefore have to shorten my bridge to compensate.

As for your analogy.. in it you didn't shorten the cricket bat, you changed how it was being held... I am not planning on doing that Give the guy a shorter bat with the same weight/balance and he'll likely play all his usual shots the same as always, if not better, and has the chance to learn/improve on his shot range.

[cueman25]

Well.. you'll always have a little trouble with a new cue until you get used to it, just recall Stephen Hendry 2 years back at the crucible.

Provided I only changed the cue length, and kept all other factors the same i.e. balance point, weight, tip size, butt size, finish, etc.. (some of those factors are probably not at all important IMO) then I doubt I'd have any trouble adjusting to the shorter cue.

eg. A 2" shorter cue with a balance point at 17" (which I now know is fairly standard after a google/search of these forums).

Just to be clear, I would not hold a shorter cue 3" up the butt, I would hold it so that my grip arm was vertical and my bridge was 11.5" from the tip (as I do currently). This is how I would hold any cue you passed me, with the exception of a cue shorter than 51" as I would not be able to get the correct hand-to-hand distance and would therefore have to shorten my bridge to compensate.

As for your analogy.. in it you didn't shorten the cricket bat, you changed how it was being held... I am not planning on doing that Give the guy a shorter bat with the same weight/balance and he'll likely play all his usual shots the same as always, if not better, and has the chance to learn/improve on his shot range.

I can only think that the Crucible is now a formality.......

[cazmac1]

I deceied, to take the plunge and send my cue to treavor white to have it shorten. I was gonna go back to my previous lenght of 57 1/4, but as I now know that my bridge overhang was far too long I'm going to go for a standard 57" cue. Just waiting for trevor to get back to me with a price and time. I would have taken the cue to a local cue maker for the work, but after having felt the finish on TW cues I wouldn't trust any other cue maker to do the work.

[cueman25]

I deceied, to take the plunge and send my cue to treavor white to have it shorten. I was gonna go back to my previous lenght of 57 1/4, but as I now know that my bridge overhang was far too long I'm going to go for a standard 57" cue. Just waiting for trevor to get back to me with a price and time. I would have taken the cue to a local cue maker for the work, but after having felt the finish on TW cues I wouldn't trust any other cue maker to do the work.

If you have set yourself up as I suggested and from the FC website, and got the measurements correct, you will have a good base to start from. Free your mind when you get it back, go forward with it as a new cue and get used to it. Don't expect too much at first. Concentrate on the basics and just practice using set routines that you can measure your progress and feel your way in and build your confidence with it. From what you have said before, it's all you need to do.

[cazmac1]

Couldn't get trevor to do the alterations so took it to H&O, Robert done a nice job on the cue and I like the new lenght. the thing is since getting the cue back I've had terrible tip trouble so haven't been able to put the cue through it's paces. To be honest I want to go shorter. when I went for coaching with del Hill he set my stance up for me a put some tape on the cue. Where he got me to hold left me with about 5 inches hanging out the back of my hand. Without a doubt this throws the balance of the cue out the window and makes the cue hard to control. This counter acts any benifit gained by shortening the cue just by moving the hand further up the butt.
So if I was to shorten the cue to where del set me up I would be playing with a cue of 53 1/4 Now I don't think I will go this short but am convince I can play with a cue of 55.
I will sort out my tip problems and then take it from there but am quite sure that I will be going to 55 inch.
I think I've asked this question before but can't remember if I got an answer, what is the shortest cue ever used by a pro.

[cueman25]

Couldn't get trevor to do the alterations so took it to H&O, Robert done a nice job on the cue and I like the new lenght. the thing is since getting the cue back I've had terrible tip trouble so haven't been able to put the cue through it's paces. To be honest I want to go shorter. when I went for coaching with del Hill he set my stance up for me a put some tape on the cue. Where he got me to hold left me with about 5 inches hanging out the back of my hand. Without a doubt this throws the balance of the cue out the window and makes the cue hard to control. This counter acts any benifit gained by shortening the cue just by moving the hand further up the butt.
So if I was to shorten the cue to where del set me up I would be playing with a cue of 53 1/4 Now I don't think I will go this short but am convince I can play with a cue of 55.
I will sort out my tip problems and then take it from there but am quite sure that I will be going to 55 inch.
I think I've asked this question before but can't remember if I got an answer, what is the shortest cue ever used by a pro.

Hi,
I must admit I haven't looked at this these posts for sometime.....they are just not getting read properly mostly, must be a written email thing, so I gave up giving the advice. I received an email link about your post, so one last shot for you......
Looks like your cue is 58.5 ? from what you say. You don't quote the tip size, kind of tip etc.....so who knows. You don't mention any of your body stats....so who knows. If a coach set your length at 53.25, you must be a smaller and shorter armed person. Since these changes are hypothetical and miles away from what you use, it takes an experienced person to judge. You get the advice and then you say you "think" you prefer 55.....unbelievable.
You have access to hands on advice - use it, if the person is qualified trust them.
WITHOUT DOUBT.....shortening ANY cue by more than 1.75 inches should not be undertaken if at all possible, especially if the ferrule size to start with is anything less than 9.8......the re-tapering and balance change would be so great as top make it unrealistic in being able to judge the outcome of feel from the cue.
You, without doubt need to pick up, play with all sorts of tip sizes and cue lengths and weights in a bespoke cue store who can then sell you a cue of the right length or alter one very close.
Do all of this, based on what a coach says or otherwise you will stab in the dark forever.
Ray Reardon, a good 6 ft. Played with a 55 inch cue.
Good luck.

[cazmac1]

I can asure you I'm of average height and my arms are quite standard too.
I'm 5,11. the thing is i play with a big bend in my bridge arm, this is what i feel comfortable with and find that I can push the ball along the line of sight easer. I had lot of comments about my bridge arm being too bent, but del said he didn't care how bent my arm was as long as I kept the over hang as he set me up. Now del told me not to shorten the cue so that if I needed I could reach more shots. He said that on these occasion I could lenghten the bridge. This contridics the advice that you have given from FC web site.
You reccomended having the cue the correct lenght so that you hand to hand distance stays the same. So by follow your advice I have to go shorter.

With regards to the cue lenght, what I'm saying is I can still hold the cue where he set me up with a 55 inch cue without the cue balance been throwen out.

[cueman25]

I can asure you I'm of average height and my arms are quite standard too.
I'm 5,11. the thing is i play with a big bend in my bridge arm, this is what i feel comfortable with and find that I can push the ball along the line of sight easer. I had lot of comments about my bridge arm being too bent, but del said he didn't care how bent my arm was as long as I kept the over hang as he set me up. Now del told me not to shorten the cue so that if I needed I could reach more shots. He said that on these occasion I could lenghten the bridge. This contridics the advice that you have given from FC web site.
You reccomended having the cue the correct lenght so that you hand to hand distance stays the same. So by follow your advice I have to go shorter.

With regards to the cue lenght, what I'm saying is I can still hold the cue where he set me up with a 55 inch cue without the cue balance been throwen out.

You don't think the cue is out of balance set up like that ?, but it is and so are you !!
Ever watched a youngster play with a cue miles too big? Well, you are half way there.
Lessen the bend, compromise a bit. Do it with a cue of around 56.6 / 57.0 and have the hands set properly at bridge point and butt END.
You won't have changed the arm bend too much and you'll be playing easier and better. More importantly, more consistently which brings improvement.

Or do it by degrees a month at a time with old cues cut down at the butt end. First at 55.5, next month to 56.5 / 57. It will be somewhere around that - but I can't see you.
2 hours a day practice - not playing at ALL.
And no other cue for 2 months.

Get a bespoke cue made if you can't find one on spec. after the 2 months.
You'll never look back.

Or carry on ignoring the obvious and messing about.........?

[cazmac1]

I think I lost you some where or you've lost me. The point Is I'm not going to straighten my arm as this is my natural stance. since listening to other peoples advise on this my game has gone down hill. I respect your opinion but I'm going to push on with having the cue shorten to 55. I will then have it made into a two peice too add some weight and to balance the cue.

[cueman25]

I think I lost you some where or you've lost me. The point Is I'm not going to straighten my are as this is my natural stance. since listening to other peoples advise on this my game has gone down hill. I respect your opinion but I'm going to push on with having the cue shorten to 55. I will then have it made into a two peice too add some weight and to balance the cue.

You talked as if you were leaving the overhang.......
With a severely bent arm, you had someone assess you at 53.25.
You stated it threw you and the cue out of balance, which it would.
You "think" you can play at 55?
You may well do just that.....but cutting so much off what would have been a 58 / 60 inch cue in the first place will mean having to change the butt dia. too, otherwise the taper will be severe. And you may not like a smaller dia. or not like the taper.....so much to overcome.
You are messing about with something you do not understand.
Your repairer had better be patient and rather good.

Others reading all of this....beware.

[trevs1]

'Some' good points amongst all of this, but I believe some are slightly misdirected also.

Personally, I see much of this as overcomplicating a rather simple issue. Cue length is NOT quite as critical as many would have you believe. As long as a cue has enough length to allow a player to set up fairly correctly and deliver the cue through the ball sufficiently, then you're in business. Naturally, a cue which is way too long is not good for a number of reasons, and a cue which is too short is equally, if not more damaging to good technique. But to get wrapped up in all manner of detail is not beneficial.

Cazmac, if you REALLY want to try the cue shorter, do it in small increments. That way at least, you'll be able to assess as you move along the scale of length. Taking an inch of any cue you are used to is going to feel like a mile has been chopped off it.

[cazmac1]

Thanks for your input trevor, what I did was brought a cheap cue on ebay and shorten it myself and have been playing well and have had no problem with any shot selection. So I deceided to have your cue shorten, the work was done by H&O. I asked robert what the effect would be by taking the amount off I did, and he said it would have little effect on the balance at all. The problem is that since getting the cue back I haven't had a decent tip on the cue and have had very little table time so can't make any judgement on the work as yet. So for now I'll stick with 56. I can't ignor the fact that when I shorten everything up I seem to be able the hit the white true. The problem is I have to keep looking for the correct point on the cue to hold, this takes my focus away from the object of the game (Potting and position). I want a cue that I can hold at the end and know that my set up is correct. If I need extra lenght I could always get a mini but made for this job.
I think I'll leave it there for now and see how things progress:snooker: