Cues,push off or squirt.

[roykay]

As most players know the cue ball will be pushed off of the line when side is used. This varies a great deal from cue to cue and also from tip to tip.
Some will push off (say the break off shot at snooker or the long jenny at billiards) very little and some half a ball or more.
Does any one know what causes this variation? Has any one done a scientific study of this?
Roy Bacon

[jrc750]

....Does any one know what causes this variation? Has any one done a scientific study of this?...

Doesn't it all depend upon the stiffness of the cue ??? and with wood being wood every single cue will be slightly different

[Terry Davidson]

roy:

Because wood is a natural product each shaft will throw differently, but then you have to add in the weight of the ferrule (thick or thin?) along with the tupe of tip (hard or soft?) with the weight of the cue. Then take the weight of the cueball and the weight of the cloth (speed) and you get different throw.

However, a good cueist should know the throw of the cue he's using or else not use side at all until he does know the throw for that particular cue

Terry

[roykay]

Yes I agree with all that terry but my question is not that it happens but what exactly causes the variation.We know that all these things cause the effect but why?
Roy Bacon

[nrage]

Best description of the effect, causes and outcome is here:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=.../3/mXJ7bDafTms

[roykay]

Thanks nrage ,a very interesting link. Now we have some logical answers. It is the mass of the last 6 inches or so of the cue which causes squirt. that explains why I have found a fibre ferrule causes less squirt than a brass one.
Regards Roy Bacon

[Terry Davidson]

Roy:

Yes, I agree that a thicker brass ferrule will cause more 'squirt' to use your word or the more common term of 'throw'. The thinner you make the brass ferrule then the less throw you get.

However, in saying that, a player can get used to any amount of throw from a particular cue once he uses it long enough and learns to adjust his aim when he uses siding.

My argument against that is the amount of throw required also depends on distance between the balls. With a new cue I miss more blacks with side and try not to use it at all since it also depends on the power a player has to use and it's just one more thing to clutter the mind. I try to use centre-ball all the time with a newer cue however there are instances around the black where you do get slightly out of position and need that side to either get a cannon or avoid one.

I think the best solution is to make the brass as thin as possible while still retaining just sufficient thickness to protect the end of the cue or else change to a fiber ferrule which will have less weight.

Next question...is there a stong metal out there (maybe titanium?) which is as strong or stronger than brass but weighs less than brass or even less than a fiber ferrule. Any good metal engineers out there? Is anyone making threaded ferrules out of some light metal? I'll buy a dozen if so, as long as I can get them at around 9.5mm.

Terry

[roykay]

Thats all OK Terry I would love to play without side but,I only play billiards and side is used on most shots sometimes maximum side at distance so this makes it more inportant than at snooker.
I changed cues last December and find that my ash Mannock with a fidre ferrule pushes off very little compared to my old cue which I had used for 40 years. That is why I am interested in why.
Regards
Roy Bacon

[poolqjunkie]

Basically it is the flexibility of the front end that matters. If the cue is very stiff and heavy it will push the cue ball off more while if the front of the shaft is more flexible and/or light it will get out of the way of the cue ball and push it less.
Other than thickness, I also like to use ferrule that is a bit shorter to reduce throw on my cues. Because I thread them I feel that I can make them a bit thinner and still retain its durability.
I know bronze can also be used and it is about the same look as brass.
I dont like the black plastic because it tends to crack and fray at the top much easier than metal. But it does reduce throw.
You can also bore the front of the cue a bit then cover it up with a piece of wood on the top to reduce throw. The idea is that if the front is lighter it will become more flexible with the right taper. This is what Kevin Deroo does with his low deflection shaft.