Ferrule size does it matter?

[wayync]

Is there a standard size for how long the ferrule should be? Also does a shorter ferrule translate to lower deflection or does it make a difference at all?

[Slasher]

More brass = more deflection by way of end mass. Try to keep the ferrule length and thickness to a minimum.

[wayync]

Ok is there anything that can be done to shorten a ferrule yourself or does it have to be done by a cue maker?

[Terry Davidson]

Remove tip, mark ferrule length with a pencil, with a file edge make a small groove in ferrule then grab small hacksaw and slowly cut off the top of the ferrule in as straight a line as you can manage.

After sawing complete, level off top of ferrule and tenon with a coarse and then fine file until perfectly flat. Re-tip cue and your good to go.

Don't generate any heat while sawing or filing.

Leave enough ferrule for some strength against mis-cues. I would say at least 6mm with brass. This is why I want to try out the stainless steel ferrules and I think I can get the strength required with less ferrule weight by reducing the height down to 5mm or so and the diameter to 9.4mm

Terry

[Slasher]

Wayync/Terry, I am going to cut some titanium ferrules in the next few weeks just waiting for the tube stock, will send you one to try one out if you like.

[wayync]

Remove tip, mark ferrule length with a pencil, with a file edge make a small groove in ferrule then grab small hacksaw and slowly cut off the top of the ferrule in as straight a line as you can manage.

After sawing complete, level off top of ferrule and tenon with a coarse and then fine file until perfectly flat. Re-tip cue and your good to go.

Don't generate any heat while sawing or filing.

Leave enough ferrule for some strength against mis-cues. I would say at least 6mm with brass. This is why I want to try out the stainless steel ferrules and I think I can get the strength required with less ferrule weight by reducing the height down to 5mm or so and the diameter to 9.4mm

Terry

Wow that seems pretty tough to do a good job on. I think I'll try to find a professional to help haha

[Slippy Shaft]

Is there a standard size for how long the ferrule should be? Also does a shorter ferrule translate to lower deflection or does it make a difference at all?

There's an old question in snooker that asks who knows best: the guy who uses the cue or the guy that makes the cue?

When I read about guys talking about cue ball deflection, and manufacturers selling cues based on the amount their 'laminated' shafts give or don't give, I wonder how on earth guys have been knocking in century breaks since before many of us were born.

Too much manufacturing 'science' is causing snooker players headaches, or at least those who listen.

Those who can play snooker play snooker. Those who can't make cues (amongst other things). If someone can tell me the first cue maker to win the world title I'm all ears.

If you play a ball with right hand side the ball will be pushed slightly to the left, and the opposite happens if you play it with left hand side.

The amount depends on the distance the white travels before the spin wears off and gravity or impact takes effect, the amount of spin, the amount of follow through, and the amount of nap on the cloth, not to mention the direction across the table versus nap versus everything else.

The factor that has the 'least' effect on the white ball is the make up of the cue, the brand name of spectaces the player wears, or the size of the ferule.

If the size isn't to your taste, then cut some off, but that's the 'only' reason you should cut any off.

If in doubt, ask yourself how many hours your average luthier, or poster with 10,000 posts, spends on a snooker table, and how often they dream new ways of selling their product, or talking about it when they could be practising and perfecting their potting skills instead.

Don't get too sucked in.

[Slasher]

There's an old question in snooker that asks who knows best: the guy who uses the cue or the guy that makes the cue?

When I read about guys talking about cue ball deflection, and manufacturers selling cues based on the amount their 'laminated' shafts give or don't give, I wonder how on earth guys have been knocking in century breaks since before many of us were born.

Too much manufacturing 'science' is causing snooker players headaches, or at least those who listen.

Those who can play snooker play snooker. Those who can't make cues (amongst other things). If someone can tell me the first cue maker to win the world title I'm all ears.

If you play a ball with right hand side the ball will be pushed slightly to the left, and the opposite happens if you play it with left hand side.

The amount depends on the distance the white travels before the spin wears off and gravity or impact takes effect, the amount of spin, the amount of follow through, and the amount of nap on the cloth, not to mention the direction across the table versus nap versus everything else.

The factor that has the 'least' effect on the white ball is the make up of the cue, the brand name of spectaces the player wears, or the size of the ferule.

If the size isn't to your taste, then cut some off, but that's the 'only' reason you should cut any off.

If in doubt, ask yourself how many hours your average luthier, or poster with 10,000 posts, spends on a snooker table, and how often they dream new ways of selling their product, or talking about it when they could be practising and perfecting their potting skills instead.

Don't get too sucked in.

Michael Schumacher doesn't build F1 cars and Tiger Woods doesn't build golf clubs so I am not sure the point you are trying to make.

The end mass of the cue greatly effects the path the CB takes and keeping that to a minimum will improve your consistency and especially over distance. The learning curve for compensating for that CB deflection can be greatly reduced and will also allow you to apply side with much more accuracy.
The more off center you strike the more deflection you will get but the follow through has no effect as the CB is long gone after the millisecond of contact time.

Just like golf clubs have improved over the years allowing longer more accurate drives so too can cue building techniques change the standard.

[wayync]

Michael Schumacher doesn't build F1 cars and Tiger Woods doesn't build golf clubs so I am not sure the point you are trying to make.

The end mass of the cue greatly effects the path the CB takes and keeping that to a minimum will improve your consistency and especially over distance. The learning curve for compensating for that CB deflection can be greatly reduced and will also allow you to apply side with much more accuracy.
The more off center you strike the more deflection you will get but the follow through has no effect as the CB is long gone after the millisecond of contact time.

Just like golf clubs have improved over the years allowing longer more accurate drives so too can cue building techniques change the standard.

Wow, Slasher seems to be on point about this.

So I measured my cue and the ferrule is 9mm. Is that considered standard/average? Or would you recommend cutting it to 6 or 7 mm like Terry has said?

[Slippy Shaft]

Michael Schumacher doesn't build F1 cars and Tiger Woods doesn't build golf clubs so I am not sure the point you are trying to make.

The end mass of the cue greatly effects the path the CB takes and keeping that to a minimum will improve your consistency and especially over distance. The learning curve for compensating for that CB deflection can be greatly reduced and will also allow you to apply side with much more accuracy.
The more off center you strike the more deflection you will get but the follow through has no effect as the CB is long gone after the millisecond of contact time.

Just like golf clubs have improved over the years allowing longer more accurate drives so too can cue building techniques change the standard.

To say the follow through has no effect is simply rediculous. Without follow through you can't spin the ball. For a guy to be in the position of worrying whether to cut the end of his cue off in order to protect himself against mathematics he will probably never be affected by is nothing more than too much reading and not enough playing.

And Wayyn, I have enough cues to build a small raft and sail around the world, and the majority of them are around the 8mm mark. Your extra 1mm won't make the slightest bit of difference. TYhere are too many other factors involved. Cutting your cue will do nothing more than upset you and unsettle you, and reading too much about the science involved regarding matters of incredible insignificance will only serve to distract you from the one thing that will improve your game, and that my friend is a clear mind and a constructive practise regime. When you can play the game to a standard that can't be improved upon physically, then start worrying about cueball deflection, and any cuemaker that tells you to do it the other way round should stick to making tea.

It's great that little improvements are being discovered, but they're just that ... little.

[nrage]

The factor that has the 'least' effect on the white ball is the make up of the cue, the brand name of spectaces the player wears, or the size of the ferule.

The make up of the cue, specifically cue end mass - not whippyness, or laminate, or any of that rubbish - can have a large effect, see:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FargoBil.../3/mXJ7bDafTms

Granted, he is adding a lot of end mass, but I have seen similar videos - maybe even from him - just showing several different cues. The size of the deflection was anything from 1-2cm (at far end of table) to 1ft.

[Terry Davidson]

Slasher:

Thanks for the offer and I'll definitely take you up on that.

Wayync:

Cutting down the ferrule won't gain you much so why not try and cut down or get rid of the unintentional side by working on delivering the cue straight?

By the way, I'm experimenting with these stronger and lighter ferrules but not on my playing cue which has a brass ferrule at around 10mm in height. I will be trying them out first with a couple of odd cues I have here which I didn't sell earlier, like one of the Andy Travis cues.

I would recommend to you not to experiment with your playing cue and do the same as me if you try one of Slasher's titanium ferrules.

Terry

[sharkster63]

Good Day, Wayne,
I seen pictures of your TW Cue, its very nice, I think that you would be very upset if you messed up the ferrule. I think Terry is giving good advice.
Cheers,
Rolly C. sends

Slasher:

Thanks for the offer and I'll definitely take you up on that.

Wayync:

Cutting down the ferrule won't gain you much so why not try and cut down or get rid of the unintentional side by working on delivering the cue straight?

By the way, I'm experimenting with these stronger and lighter ferrules but not on my playing cue which has a brass ferrule at around 10mm in height. I will be trying them out first with a couple of odd cues I have here which I didn't sell earlier, like one of the Andy Travis cues.

I would recommend to you not to experiment with your playing cue and do the same as me if you try one of Slasher's titanium ferrules.

Terry

[Slasher]

To say the follow through has no effect is simply rediculous. Without follow through you can't spin the ball. For a guy to be in the position of worrying whether to cut the end of his cue off in order to protect himself against mathematics he will probably never be affected by is nothing more than too much reading and not enough playing.

And Wayyn, I have enough cues to build a small raft and sail around the world, and the majority of them are around the 8mm mark. Your extra 1mm won't make the slightest bit of difference. TYhere are too many other factors involved. Cutting your cue will do nothing more than upset you and unsettle you, and reading too much about the science involved regarding matters of incredible insignificance will only serve to distract you from the one thing that will improve your game, and that my friend is a clear mind and a constructive practise regime. When you can play the game to a standard that can't be improved upon physically, then start worrying about cueball deflection, and any cuemaker that tells you to do it the other way round should stick to making tea.

It's great that little improvements are being discovered, but they're just that ... little.

There is some good info here on the science of follow through, deflection etc.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threa...follow-through

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threa...tml#low_squirt

[Slasher]

Wow, Slasher seems to be on point about this.

So I measured my cue and the ferrule is 9mm. Is that considered standard/average? Or would you recommend cutting it to 6 or 7 mm like Terry has said?

6 or 7mm long seems to work well, if the wall thickness is decent it will still maintain the strength. It does not take much added end mass to push the CB further off the path, we have tried different ferrule lengths, thickness and materials. I play with a light weight synthetic furrule and the deflection is very minimal.