Shorty

[stevet]

Advice please!

I believe the standard cue length is about 57" but I find I am more comfortable holding this length of cue about 5" from the end of the butt. Looking at the professionals they all seem to hold the cue right at the end so am I just holding it all wrong or do people often use shorter cues? I'm 5'10" btw and have been playing for years.

thanks,

Steve

[hotpot]

If you look closely at the pros i belive most will hold the cue near the end on power shots but will have a few inches showing when in amongst the balls .

If youre playing with a standard cue and have five inches showing i would say that either you have short arms or your bridge arm is extremely bent .

[gazza147]

John Higgins has a very Short Cue and he also holds the Cue Quite a few inches from end of the Butt when I seen him play at Terry Griffiths Club in a Exhibition.

There are a few that Hold there Cue a few Inches back and what ever you Feel Comfortable with m8 I would stick too.


Gaz.

[jaffa.johnson]

Have u tried playing with cues of 53 to 56 inches and seeing where you hold the cue and how u play?

I have a couple of 56 inches cues if u interested. Think seen a post for s 55 inch cue on here as well.

Or maybe buy a couple of pub sticks and cut them down to 56 and try. Then 55 and try etc until u feel most at comfort.

[Slippy Shaft]

Hi Steve.

It's hard to explain without showing someone but I'll try, and will also presume that you are right handed grip and left handed bridge.

There are various factors to consider when taking a shot, which in turn dictate the position of the left hand, and the position of the right hand.

Left hand bridge position should be close enough to the white ball, that when you push the cue through, the cue extends forwards enough to travel beyond the position of the white ball and properly spin the white.

Meanwhile, the stance should be close enough to do this without stretching.

The right hand works in a pendulum motion, and this pendulum would be similar to the 4 and 8 on a clock, with 3 being too far back, and 9 being too far forward.

This is not an exact science, and just a rough guide, so don't challenge the exact numbers versus position.

At 8 oclock, the cue should be pushed through the white. At 7, the cue will be hitting the white, and between 6 and 7, you will be feathering the white.

At 4 oclock, you will be at maximum recoil, and 5 your cue will be moving forward to attack the white, be it the back end of the feather or the continuation of the strike.

I hope you're understanding me at this point.

The grip on your right hand should be such, that the right hand is at these points, while the cue tip is at the other points.

For example: Right hand at 8 at the full follow through and right hand at 4 at the full draw back.

At no time should your right hand extend pass these outer points, regardless of how hard you hit the shot, or your cue will raise in the air, and the strike will be flawed.

If you are able to do all this perfectly, then the cue is the right size, and your grip is in the right place. If your right hand is raising (extending towards the front of the body) upon the strike, then you are either too far away from the white with your bridge hand, you are gripping the cue too short, or your cue is itself too short in length.

Players who have a bridge hand finger tip at a distance of more than 6 inches or so from the white normally have a longer cue to enable more cue in front of the hand while keeping right hand in position.

This extra cue length in front of the hand brings with it more risk of error, and if you try it with a standard cue your cue action will suffer.

It sounds very complicated, but I could show you what I meant in seconds as you can imagine. Again, I don't have a cue with me to check the maths, but the rough numbers should be enough for you to grasp the concept.

In summary, if your right hand is at 6 when your tip is an inch from the white you're laughing lol.

I'm now waffling, so going to quit while I'm ahead.

[Acrowot]

Several of the pro's have an overhang on the butt. My overhang is larger than most that I know, but then am only 5' 8". Two or three that I play with hold their cues at the end of the butt and when cuing up to the white, but their back hand is miles too far back from being vertical.
:snooker:

[nrage]

Here is a simple way to find your own ideal position, starting from the textbook position and adjusting each part in small increments to find comfort and stability.

1. Place the white on the brown spot.

2. Place your bridge hand on the table so that the V is directly above the edge of the D. Get down on the shot (to play the brown up the spots), place your tip within 1/2" of the white, make sure your bridge arm is nearly straight, with a slight bend, and the elbow resting on the table.

.. Your bridge to white distance is now 10.5 - 11" and is within the typical/standard 8-12" recommended distance. Going shorter than 8" reduces the power you can generate and going more than 12" increases the difficulty of striking the cue ball exactly where you want to. This distance is what you want to consistently use on all shots where you can get your hand comfortably on the table. For shots off the rail, or where you're hampered you will adjust it, I'll mention this later.

.. The nearly straight bridge arm does 2 things. 1) gets your head/eye back from the white to a position where you can see more of the cue, and get a better perspective of whether it's on the line of aim (up the spots). 2) twists your upper body to a 45 degree angle, pushing your grip shoulder up and back into a stable/locked position which reduces movement on the shot.

3. Change your bridge to a loop bridge so you're holding the cue with only your bridge hand in the above 'correct' position, rest the butt on the rail. Look down and place your back foot directly under the end of the butt of the cue.

.. This is the recommended back foot position, directly in line with the shot (up the spots), and directly under where your grip hand will be. You can turn your toes out, or in, whichever is most comfortable for you. The important thing is that some part of your foot is on the line, and this distance from the white.

4. Place your front foot a shoulder width to the side of the back foot and either in line, or slightly forward of the back foot. Get down on the shot again.

.. This is the recommended square stance. Adjust the front foot position only, by moving it wider or narrower, or forward or backward until you can stay down on the shot for 60 secs without any discomfort. If you prefer a more side on stance you will likely be less than shoulder width apart and have your front foot much further forward (1 - 2 foot lengths). This stance gives less resistance to sideways movement, but may give more power, at the expense of accuracy.

5. Use the loop bridge again, rest the butt on the rail and grip the cue very loosely, so that you can slide your grip hand up and down the cue. Point your index finger directly at your back foot. This should mean your grip arm is now vertical, above your back foot.

.. This is 6 o'clock in Slippy's description above and this is your ideal grip and stance.

I have a piece of electrical tape on my cue just in front of my grip hand in this position, and I use this tape to adjust my grip for shots off the rail and where I am hampered by other balls. If my bridge is closer than my normal setup, I simply grip the cue farther up, using the tape as a guide. The shorter the bridge, the farther up the cue I grip, and vice-versa, playing with an extension requires a longer bridge, or the rest.

Incidently, you should use the same bridge distance with the rest as your normal stance for the same reasons, and because changing the distance changes the angle of the cue, which changes the effect of different striking positions on the white, i.e. you might get more or less screw than intended and go out of position.

Last but not least, practice walking into your ideal position playing the brown up the spots for 5-10 minutes now, then practice it again for 1-2 minutes before every practice and eventually you will be able to do it without thinking.

[Slippy Shaft]

Here is a simple way to find your own ideal position, starting from the textbook position and adjusting each part in small increments to find comfort and stability.

1. Place the white on the brown spot.

2. Place your bridge hand on the table so that the V is directly above the edge of the D. Get down on the shot (to play the brown up the spots), place your tip within 1/2" of the white, make sure your bridge arm is nearly straight, with a slight bend, and the elbow resting on the table.

.. Your bridge to white distance is now 10.5 - 11" and is within the typical/standard 8-12" recommended distance. Going shorter than 8" reduces the power you can generate and going more than 12" increases the difficulty of striking the cue ball exactly where you want to. This distance is what you want to consistently use on all shots where you can get your hand comfortably on the table. For shots off the rail, or where you're hampered you will adjust it, I'll mention this later.

.. The nearly straight bridge arm does 2 things. 1) gets your head/eye back from the white to a position where you can see more of the cue, and get a better perspective of whether it's on the line of aim (up the spots). 2) twists your upper body to a 45 degree angle, pushing your grip shoulder up and back into a stable/locked position which reduces movement on the shot.

3. Change your bridge to a loop bridge so you're holding the cue with only your bridge hand in the above 'correct' position, rest the butt on the rail. Look down and place your back foot directly under the end of the butt of the cue.

.. This is the recommended back foot position, directly in line with the shot (up the spots), and directly under where your grip hand will be. You can turn your toes out, or in, whichever is most comfortable for you. The important thing is that some part of your foot is on the line, and this distance from the white.

4. Place your front foot a shoulder width to the side of the back foot and either in line, or slightly forward of the back foot. Get down on the shot again.

.. This is the recommended square stance. Adjust the front foot position only, by moving it wider or narrower, or forward or backward until you can stay down on the shot for 60 secs without any discomfort. If you prefer a more side on stance you will likely be less than shoulder width apart and have your front foot much further forward (1 - 2 foot lengths). This stance gives less resistance to sideways movement, but may give more power, at the expense of accuracy.

5. Use the loop bridge again, rest the butt on the rail and grip the cue very loosely, so that you can slide your grip hand up and down the cue. Point your index finger directly at your back foot. This should mean your grip arm is now vertical, above your back foot.

.. This is 6 o'clock in Slippy's description above and this is your ideal grip and stance.

I have a piece of electrical tape on my cue just in front of my grip hand in this position, and I use this tape to adjust my grip for shots off the rail and where I am hampered by other balls. If my bridge is closer than my normal setup, I simply grip the cue farther up, using the tape as a guide. The shorter the bridge, the farther up the cue I grip, and vice-versa, playing with an extension requires a longer bridge, or the rest.

Incidently, you should use the same bridge distance with the rest as your normal stance for the same reasons, and because changing the distance changes the angle of the cue, which changes the effect of different striking positions on the white, i.e. you might get more or less screw than intended and go out of position.

Last but not least, practice walking into your ideal position playing the brown up the spots for 5-10 minutes now, then practice it again for 1-2 minutes before every practice and eventually you will be able to do it without thinking.

I took a tape measure to my bridge hand versus cue ball a few minutes ago, so as to give an exact reading rather than a guess.

My middle finger is 7 inches from the white, and my first finger is 8 inches from the white. I guess I play what some might conside a close bridge.

Just one little point before I go, regarding power.

Players think that to screw the cue ball back they need power.

You don't.

You need to spin the white, and to do this your cue must travel through the white with accuracy, timing, and good grip.

The whole idea is to pot the ball, and achieve position, and to pot balls consistently we need to keep still. We can't keep still if we are moving out of the pendulum, as with proper technique, your right hand would hit your chest.

So, to screw back with what some would call 'power' we actually move our hand 'closer' to the cue ball, thus allowing a greater follow through, without greater body movement. The rest is the timing of the shot in order to get all the body parts and cueball working as one, and finally your tip needs to be able to grip the white as it pushes through, in order to create maximum spin.

Try it.

I'm off to play. Have fun.

[Acrowot]

[SIZE="4"]nrage[/SIZE

That is as good a description as anyone has written for people to understand about the stance. Well done nrage.
:snooker:
:snooker:

[nrage]

[SIZE="4"]nrage[/SIZE

That is as good a description as anyone has written for people to understand about the stance. Well done nrage.
:snooker:
:snooker:

Thanks

[jrc750]

I took a tape measure to my bridge hand versus cue ball a few minutes ago, so as to give an exact reading rather than a guess.

My middle finger is 7 inches from the white, and my first finger is 8 inches from the white. I guess I play what some might consider a close bridge....

Sounds like you measured the wrong bit ........
I think people are supposed to measure where the V is (ie cue support point) relative to the cue ball ...............5/10 must try harder

[nrage]

I took a tape measure to my bridge hand versus cue ball a few minutes ago, so as to give an exact reading rather than a guess.

My middle finger is 7 inches from the white, and my first finger is 8 inches from the white. I guess I play what some might conside a close bridge.

Did you measure to the fingertips, or to the V where the cue rests on your thumb and forefinger? It's the V you want to measure to.

Just one little point before I go, regarding power.

Players think that to screw the cue ball back they need power.

You don't.

You need to spin the white, and to do this your cue must travel through the white with accuracy, timing, and good grip.

Certainly, but I think tip speed is important too, and the tip has to continue accelerating after contact. This keeps the tip in contact with the white just a fraction of a ms longer, allowing more spin to be imparted.

Incidentally , when people talk about 'timing' I reckon what they're really talking about is the effect you get when you get a few things right, and they are:
1. knowing implicitly when the tip impact will occur, which is down to having a consistent bridge length and/or always having the grip arm at 6 o'clock.

2. continuing to accelerate right through the white, which requires you know #1 and requires your grip hand hits your chest and doesn't slow down or stop short.

When your timing is right, and you're playing with screw, you get a 'feeling' that the cue tip is almost grabbing or scooping the white, and this feeling comes from the longer tip contact, produced by the continual acceleration right through the white.

So.. when I said you get less power with a shorter bridge I was simplifying things a lot. But as I see it, because the back swing distance is shorter you have less space in which to accelerate the cue. Which means you have to accelerate faster than you would with a longer bridge to get the same tip speed on impact with the white. Accelerating faster is harder to do without movement, it's easier to stay still on a gradual acceleration. With the same acceleration, but a longer distance you will get a better top speed, more tip speed, and more screw.

The whole idea is to pot the ball, and achieve position, and to pot balls consistently we need to keep still. We can't keep still if we are moving out of the pendulum, as with proper technique, your right hand would hit your chest.

So, to screw back with what some would call 'power' we actually move our hand 'closer' to the cue ball, thus allowing a greater follow through, without greater body movement. The rest is the timing of the shot in order to get all the body parts and cueball working as one, and finally your tip needs to be able to grip the white as it pushes through, in order to create maximum spin.

But .. if I were to shorten my bridge to 8 inches, I'd automatically move my hand up the butt of the cue by the same amount to get my grip forearm in the same 6 o'clock position.. and, as my chest is the same distance away, my hand can only travel the same distance, so I can only go the same distance through the white.

To go further through the white I would have to start with my hand backward of 6 o'clock, is that what you do?

Actually.. I have noticed when Shaun Murphy gets down to a shot he starts feathering while sliding his rest hand onto the table .. I should take a 2nd look and see where his arm is on impact, it may be slightly backward of 6 o'clock.. which would give him more distance to get through the white.

[stevet]

Thanks very much to all who have responded. I seem to be measuring up ok in terms of distance from V to cue ball etc. etc but have just measured my cue and it's actually nearly 59", not the 57" I thought. I think I'm going to look for a new cue - preferably one which is about 56".

[nrage]

Thanks very much to all who have responded. I seem to be measuring up ok in terms of distance from V to cue ball etc. etc but have just measured my cue and it's actually nearly 59", not the 57" I thought. I think I'm going to look for a new cue - preferably one which is about 56".

It's ok to have 1-2 inches out the back of your hand when down in your normal address position. In fact, I think I prefer to have at least 1 inch. The reason being that if you pull back to maximum back swing, your 3rd and 4th fingers release (maybe even your 2nd too, depending on how your grip works) to allow the cue to stay on a plane/line. When this happens, if you have 1 inch out the back you can keep the finger tips of these fingers in contact with the cue, rather than having them in thin air. This helps you re-apply them on the stroke, without snatching/grabbing at the cue.. they just slide back into place, ideally without influencing the path of the cue and pushing it offline.