Are snooker cues like cars.

[cazmac1]

Hi all I like to ask the question are snooker cues like cars. In what way you ask?
Well is a well known fact that as soon as you by a new car and drive it away from the show room the price deprecates.
Now some of you might have seen that I am trying to sell my JP cue on the forum, this cue is only a few months old and is in the same condition as the day I brought it.
The cue cost me £442, yet I have had some people offer as low a figure as £300
That’s a depreciation of 32%. I don't think this is right; I would like your thoughts on this and what do you think is a fair depreciation value. I know that other factors come into play here such as the cue maker. But despite what people say john parris cue are still quality cues. Maybe not every cue that leaves the work shop. But this I would guess has always been the case. Not every parris cue made is great but that applies to all cue makers.

Ps if I have got my calculation wrong please feel free to correct me, however the question is still a valid on.

[jrc750]

Difficult one really caz isn't it, on the one hand a buyer wants to pay as little as possible, but the seller on the other hand wants as much as possible ! Think your correct tho, £300 is far too low, and only accept that if your desperate. I expect that if people could actually get to get hold of cues in their hands to see how good they are, you would get better offers all round. This time next week tho, i bet you have sold it (especially if we get a few cracking games on the telly)

[jrc750]

...... a depreciation of 42%.

Ps if I have got my calculation wrong please feel free to correct me

Yeah its about 32% but as you say still too high imo

[nrage]

What you're asking is .. what is the Fair Value of your cue?

It's not really a simple question to answer, as it's affected by all the things mentioned in the start of the linked wiki page.

The simple answer is almost always; "It's worth what someone will pay for it" .. which in this case may be affected by the following;
- Was £442 it's price 'new' .. if so, it's 'used' price will be lower (common perception)
- Peoples perception of the cue maker (reputation, status)
- Peoples perception of why it is being sold (natural suspicion)

IMO .. a snooker cue really shouldn't loose much value on re-sale, unless it's been stored badly for a long time and is clearly unfit for play .. and then it depends why they're buying it, to play with or as a collectors item.

FYI.. Not sure where/how you got 42%, I suspect it's a typo? £300 is 67.8% of £442, so the offers are missing 32.2% of the original purchase price, meaning in economics terms you would say the depreciation rate was 32.2% over 2 months.

[sunny3909]

I think cues do far better then cars or say any other product in terms of depreciation over a long period.

[cazmac1]

I think JP reputation as been hit hard on the forum, while others have gone from strenght to strenght. Is is justified I don't know, am I qualified to make that judgement? As with all that we say on the forum its just an opinion, some better than others. One of the last few times I saw John in the shop we talked about the forum and he said to me that he don't go on it so much now because he gets anoyed at all the crap spoken about his cues. I have owned a new JP and and new TW, would I say one was better than the other, not really, but I will say that TW finish is first class, much better than johns. But cues can be refinished so this is no great big thing.
At the end of the day apart from the cue maker what makes a cue is the wood and this is something that can only be felt when using then cue which ebay can't get across. Why have I brought TW into this debate. Quite simply that through the power of the forum and some hard work on TW part his cues are now changing hands for more than he charges new.

[ken147]

Basically it's about supply and demand!

[cally]

It's all about 'scene tax' Some makes of cars bring silly money compared too a different makers equivalent. (being same spec or even better in some cases) some makes will just become more valuable over time and some de-value/depreciate silly amounts ...

Same with cues re-sale prices i guess.

That's why 2nd hand tw cues get good money people will pay the 'scene tax' just to have one sometimes. hence trev has a higher resale value than most makes.

Similar to JP's Ultimates too i guess.

[hotpot]

i dont think a cue from any of the top makers should lose much value if anything as long as their in good nic .

I suppose we all value our cues as we see them , thats why you sometimes see cues from certain sellers here that are overvalued and undervalued .

I have a mast here that looks and plays fantastic that would probaly cost around £360 but if i were to sell i would,nt let it go for less than £500 as thats how highly i rate it .

[cally]

Is that the mast you varnished?...

Yeh, it is a bute...

[hotpot]

Thats the one muck

[cueman]

Interesting debate and one where there isn't a right or wrong answer. My suspicion towards anyone selling a cue is usually the reason for the sale rather than anything to do with who made the cue, whether its a Parris, Trevor or a cheaper range such as Peradon or Mastercraft.

The problem you have Caz is that you have only recently bought this cue and naturally it doesn't look good from a buyers POV that you want to part with it so soon. Now I don't know you and don't know your reason, I hear its because you have another cue on the way but for me a cue is bought to play with. Now in an ideal world and certainly what I would do if looking for a new cue is if I'm having another one made I want to compare the two before making a decision on the sale, but what you are doing makes it look like the cue isn't a good one and therefore people are scepticle about the quality of it, well at least it does to me and if I think that way I'm sure others will too.

Whether this should see such a depreciation in value though is neither here nor there as again Parris cues are very common on Ebay now, its a buyers market these days as money is tight and people are selling all the time. So you have to take a lot more into account rather than just the price you paid for it or what you think it should be worth.

[hotpot]

Most members here that have sold a few cues have built up a good and trusted reputation for the quality of the cues cases etc they sell .

I,ve sold about a dozen or so cues here and they have all been first class cues but are,nt quite right for me as i have something here that i feel more comfortable with .

Thats the only reason why i sell and i suspect others are the same .

[poolqjunkie]

Some cues are sold for more and some are less. Some depreciate more and some less.
It depends on lots of factors.
You need to understand the forum is just a small part of the whole snooker cue market and those who are really knowledgable do not just go by some opinion they read on a forum when they decide what something is worth. Besides, customers can look at a cue and judge what they see and compare other cues in the same price range and draw their own conclusions. If your cue plays very well, and is very well made, regardless of what forum members might have said about JP cues, someone would appreciate it and buy it--just as you did in the first place.
In my opinion, John Parris is a great cue maker and his cues play very well in general. He understands what make a good cue, and he has the ability and knowledge to execute what he knows. He is also very good at marketing.
His Ultimate cues still hold their values quite well and are quite sort after.
Nevertheless, Trevor White's work should not be compared to a JP stock cue but only an Ultimate from JP if you want to compare the two, in my opinion. Trevor's work is very precise, which is something not commonly seen in a regular stock JP cue. The finish is just part of the whole story.
Trevor has earned his reputation by building consistent cues to the highest standard for many years at a very good price. His work is very consistent and of very high quality. The outstanding quality of his work is very obvious even to a layman. He does not make that many cues and he has a long waiting list, his cues are hence understandibly more valuable and in demand on the used market.
If you find someone who loves how your cue plays, perhaps in your local club, you may have a better chance to sell it for a price you are happy with.
Sometimes it is also just a matter of timing.
Good luck.

[JasonOwen]

Maybe cues shouldnt be compared to cars but to works of art.
They involve the same amount of thought, effort, time and skill as a high quality water colour painting, which in some cases immediately increase with value.

I think youll find that JP stock cues are being made in a production line style, ie taper down 10 shafts, cut 10 top and bottom splices, cut 10 side splices, so that 10 cues are being produced at a time.
The JP ultimate is being produced one at a time, so that every stage is right and given extra care and attention. This is how Trev, Airin, top end MW cues will be being produced. Its easy to make mistakes and not notice them when working mass production line style. Working one cue at a time does create a piece of art, true workmanship.